54. Caroline Strawson Goes From Money Zero To Money Hero

This week, I speak to Caroline Strawson, award-winning trauma therapist and coach.

Having escaped an abusive marriage and crippled by over £70,000 of debt, Caroline once knew what it was like to be at rock bottom in every sense.

Despite being a financially-vulnerable single mum, Caroline was determined to avoid having a ‘victim’ mentality, and worked tirelessly to turn her life around for herself and her two children.

Caroline not only survived, but thrived, after extreme emotional and financial trauma. Her story provides a great sense of hope for anyone going through tough circumstances.

Now a multi-award winning, international therapist and coach, Caroline now helps people recover from the trauma of narcissistic abuse, and live life on their own terms.

To find out more about Caroline’s work visit her website at: https://www.carolinestrawson.com/

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more.

Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down, as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Hello there, Jason here. Before we get into the show, I just wanted to let you know about my new Instagram Live every Tuesday night at 7:30. Join me @jbthewealthman on Instagram, and I'll answer any question you want to put about personal finance and money. So join me @jbthewealthman on Instagram that 7:30 every Tuesday night. Hope to see you then. Let's get into the show.

Hello, thanks for joining me. I'm your host Jason Butler for another edition of Real Money Stories. And today I'm joined by Caroline Strawson. Hi, Caroline.

Caroline Strawson 1:29
Hi there. lovely to be here this morning.

Jason Butler 1:31
Absolutely. And you were actually recommended by a previous guest on the show, weren't you which was Catherine Morgan. All right.

Caroline Strawson 1:39
That's right. Yeah. She's really really good friend of mine.

Jason Butler 1:42
Yeah, top lady. I mean, you know, she's just a powerhouse. I don't know how, how she even keeps up with all I'm worn out just just watching her social media and everything.

Caroline Strawson 1:52
Oh you better not watch mine then.

Unknown Speaker 1:55
Okay.

Jason Butler 1:57
Before we get into your story, do you want to just tell everyone what you actually do sort of sort of day job or what your key focus activity is?

Caroline Strawson 2:05
Yeah, so I am an award winning therapist and coach and I specialize really in dealing with trauma predominantly. And that includes complex PTSD, childhood trauma and narcissistic abuse, so they're kind of my main key specialisms, really in what I do, and all really came about through my own experiences as well.

Jason Butler 2:29
Crikey, that is a hell of a hell of a job title. That is fascinating. As you know, I'm fascinated by the psychology of money and the emotional side of money.

Caroline Strawson 2:38
And oh, I many, many of my clients, Jason always comes in around many, because I do actually a lot of parts therapy with my clients. And I use something called internal family systems. So it's an evidence based parts therapy. So things like when you're talking about many things like self sabotage, procrastination, you know, all of these are parts of us trying to protect us from a core wound that is normally formed from when we were a child.

Jason Butler 3:04
I see some interesting things. I work with probably three or four families a year, I've a consultancy called Generation Next. And we we work with families to help them get the harmony, their sense of purpose and the role of money in the family. So that they are the heirs are prepared to receive the money. And it's really interesting in those family sessions. Obviously, we haven't been to COVID you see the dynamics playing out between the different generations. And those are quietest are actually, I've got some really interesting thoughts. But you know, the matriarch or patriarch, the power struggle, the love the identity, it's a fascinating subject. So we'll get into that in a bit. But take us back then to the beginning and the beginning of your story. Can I Can you remember your earliest money memory?

Caroline Strawson 3:45
Um, I think my earliest money memory was and listening to my parents really talking about their 10,000 pound overdraft. And this was many, many years ago. And then, you know, every now and again, they'd go and get an m&s loan out to kind of pay that, and then we'd go back into this 10,000 pound overdraft. And it was like, when my dad would get paid with, you know, they'd sort of come out of it a little bit, and then they'd be back in it. And it was always around sort of scarcity. You know, I never felt like as a child that I wanted for anything, per se, but we didn't have a lot, you know, we always made sure we were in a good area for good schools, that was always the, you know, priority, but money wise, and never felt like we had a lot of money. So I would always sort of eavesdrop and hear them talking about this, or lack of money and juggling and, you know, shopping in certain places to get the best deals like you know, people might remember quicksave from years ago, you know, when they go and get you know, all the bargains and everything like that. So it was definitely around a very scarcity mindset with money.

Jason Butler 4:53
Interesting. So how did that affect you? Looking back on it? How did that make you feel as a child? How did that affect you in your business and General demeanor and approach to life.

Caroline Strawson 5:02
I think for me, obviously, it can go one of two ways. But I think at the start, it made me think, if I had money, I'd spend it. So even sort of his pocket money, it would come in, and it would go out, you know, I remember as well. And this was where I was eight years old. And my mum said, I have five days. So we could stop at the sweet shop on the way home from school, or I could have 30 pence on a Saturday, you know, I'd make that extra five pence. And I always chose five pence a day, you know, it's very kind of in the media. And if it was available, then I'd have it because, again, it was that scarcity. What if I waited till Saturday, and it wasn't going to be there. And it's only interesting when I look back that that's why I realized I was doing I didn't know that at the time, obviously. But it was very much now if it was there, I'd have it I'd spend it because you know, what if I had it and then went, because it wasn't going to be there.

Jason Butler 5:57
So that was setting you up for future behaviors and also your relationship with money, which, which is what affects all of us, right? Yeah. And I totally get it. Yeah, I remember, as a child, scrabbling around to get the seven p to bar Mars bar, this is 1970 1977 say

Caroline Strawson 6:13
I can relate to this

Jason Butler 6:14
and the local greengrocer used to sell them and I can remember getting the fun. The final pence for seven p and going I just remember, I was almost so excited that I just nearly dropped the money because it was just I only had to go around the corner. And suddenly there was like power seven p Mars bar at feel sick.

Caroline Strawson 6:34
You've got a load of things there. The very aspect they're kind of, you know, eating. So you're getting all of that immediate kind of rush of adrenaline and everything.

Jason Butler 6:44
And power and control. And so that's something we have to figure out. Okay, so that's interesting. So you didn't want for a lot but there was a bit was a, there was a precariousness and a scarcity in the household that made you perhaps have a present what we call a present bias to the immediacy. Okay, so take us forward and through your childhood than any other key events that you remember.

Caroline Strawson 7:07
I think, you know, I did a lot of sports. So what I did was, I suppose, you know, I just kind of focused on those things. But there was a definite around, you know, I always felt like we didn't have money. It was just a feeling. So when I look back on my childhood, you know, even when we were buying cars and everything as well, it was very much, you know, we'd have to get the bargain car kind of thing. And I remember one time, I think I must have been about all 12 years old, I think my dad went out and bought a car without asking my mom, and it was a sob. And I always remember my mom's Friday, they eat Petro. So again, it was always around the cost of what it was going to be like to run this car and everything. It's not it's always bringing it back to money.

Jason Butler 7:57
And that that was that. I mean, don't get too heavy with the parents. But that was obviously a point of contention and a conflict because we get lots of conflicts in relationships about money. It's not really about the money. It's about the the trust or the decision making or the communication so so we create cutely aware that there was a bit of a hang on a minute that's gone and done this mums, you know,

Caroline Strawson 8:16
Yeah, I did. Because again, my dad played golf, and every now and again, my mum would find a golf club hidden in his

Unknown Speaker 8:22
back, you know,

Jason Butler 8:23
I'm an old man,

Caroline Strawson 8:26
I would sneak to book so my mom was definitely very much tightly control over the purse strings and everything. As well as my dad was probably a little bit more free with regards and even, you know, my mum passed away 11 years ago, and I remember even when my mum passed away, my dad didn't have Sky Sports. And my mum said it was a waste of money. And it took me and my sisters a good three months to actually persuade my dad get Sky Sports, none would want you to have it because it gives you something to do and to watch. And again, he felt like you know, oh, no, it was spending money on

Jason Butler 9:00
an interesting thing that we have these these stories and scripts from our year earlier. And even if we got the money, we find it difficult sometimes to ease up from previously imposed boundaries. Right? Interesting. Okay, so in your teenage years, what do you like? What did you have jobs? Did you get pocket money? What do you like with money then in your teenage

Caroline Strawson 9:18
years? Okay, so I got a job at 13 straight away. So the moment I could earn money and get in somewhere I did. And I remember I worked in this little restaurant in Leighton buzzard called cookies. And then I'd work sort of 2003 on a Saturday and 10 pounds and my friend worked there as well. We both trot off into town afterwards, we lost 10 pounds and send it immediately. We go by a cassette tape our God I really try anyway did everything.

Jason Butler 9:49
CD person, definitely not cassette.

Caroline Strawson 9:52
That's not too bad. There were lucky maybe 10 years or so. I'll take that I'll take that. You know, or we'd go in and you know, and buy a piece of clothing or something? So, you know, again, it was that we've got it. Let's go and spend.

Jason Butler 10:05
Hmm. So you did work. You had your sense of control? Did you? Well, then what happened? Did you go to did you do sixth form? Did you go to uni? What happened there?

Caroline Strawson 10:16
Yeah. So I went to sixth form, again, worked the whole way through, worked into summer holidays, as well went to university. And it was really interesting in university and this, again, is coming back to the money but also a belief of myself I had, which I'm sure we'll go into, as we went on about not feeling good enough. So I always wanted to be the good child to my parents, you know, I, I've got I've got two older sisters. So for me, the dynamics of all of that led me to believe my dad was quite an unemotional man. So my dad wouldn't really say things like, I love you. I'm proud of you. Well done. And yeah, I was sort of straight A student catalyst sports teams, almost a while back, I think my God, I don't know what more I could have done as adults. But again, and my dad was an emotional and my interpretation of that, as I was growing up was, I'm not good enough, as opposed to not realizing that actually, my dad wasn't capable of that through through his own childhood. So when I went to university, and obviously, this was when fees were still being paid as well, but several, but my mom and dad always had to support me. And for accommodation, food, books, clothing, etc, even though I still worked. And I remember one time, and this was in the year when I was doing my dissertation, and my dad was bringing me a computer down so that I could type it all up and everything. And my mom had been really funny on the phone for about two weeks beforehand, and I just knew something wasn't right. And when my dad came down with this computer, he sort of sat me on the bed and he was like, Is everything okay? And I thought, Yeah, why? And he said, we found one of your bank statements, your 7000 pound overdrawn. And at the time, I was thinking, Oh, my God, you should see what my friends are overdrawn. I was I was flushed compared to them. So for me, it was Yes, I was overdrawn. But equally compared to actually pretty much everybody else. I knew I wasn't. And I still work. And I don't think my mum and dad can grasp that surely, with the money they were giving me to live per week that it just wasn't enough. And don't get me wrong, I was still enjoying university life. And I probably could have been less overdrawn than that as well. But in comparison to others. So again, it was I felt like this little girl being told off for being over Jordan. Yeah, actually, in comparison to everybody else. So although when I was at university, I had a great time at university, still around the money aspect, as well, you know, again, when it came in, it went back out, you know, when I got a student loan one year, and again, this was when you didn't have to take student loans out. And I remember taking the student loan out with my friend, and we just went and booked a holiday with

Unknown Speaker 13:04
no regard or

Unknown Speaker 13:05
anything.

Caroline Strawson 13:07
Absolutely, you know, we were 19 at the time, and we went off to cover everything, but again, it was we got it and it went out there. I could not remember really up until maybe the last three or four years of my life in some respects, ever having savings.

Jason Butler 13:28
So that's interesting this feelings of shame perhaps not being enough immediacy needing to use it scarcity, they're all coming together, aren't they? And and I don't want to be secrets or anything. But clearly, there was no idea of, of actually, any budget or anything or any kind of framework or any kind of idea of what's coming in going out. Like this is what we've got for fun. There was none of that right?

Caroline Strawson 13:50
No, surprisingly, when I think about my mom, my mom would know things to the penny. Whereas I was the complete opposite. Literally the complete opposite. Yeah.

Jason Butler 13:59
Interesting. Okay, so you came through university of having had a great time presumably got a degree as well. Yeah. And and a bit of an overdraft so. So tell us about as you became a proper adult, as it were, in your relationship with money at that stage, did you go straight into the workplace? Did you have a year off? or What did you do? I

Caroline Strawson 14:18
did, I went to work for the NHS for a while. And again, I wasn't earning a huge amounts of money. And then I love traveling. So I thought I remember saying to my mom one day, hey, I think I might apply to an airline. I love traveling, you know, you get to travel for free. And my mom was like, hey, Virgin Atlantic, advertising in the Daily Mail and I was like, Okay, I'll apply for them. And they started this process and I ended up going then and working for Virgin Atlantic met Richard Branson on many occasions, as well. I used to do a lot of promotional work for them as well. So sort of did the brochures, the magazines, newspapers and stuff for them. But again, a lot of people would do they would be surprised but the pay actually affected me just wasn't great. It wasn't very good. So I really from a living perspective, it's very difficult to save actually with the money or what I was earning, because it was really just covering my living expenses. But I didn't mind too much. And I was 2324 years. Yeah, exactly. I was traveling all over the world, you know that I was paying my student loan back a very, very minimal amount, I was barely earning what you need to to actually pay it back. Anyway, after about a year of working to Birgit and I realized British Airways, you've got a far better pay with them, you actually got more time off. So I applied to British Airways. And I then got into work with with Ba, which I did stay with them for just over nine years, actually in the pay was great actually with them. Not so great. Now, because I can see on the news where it's all changing. I was one of those on this old contract that they had. So, you know, I was on sort of four to five K a year, which for an airline is is really, really great believable.

Yeah, and I was traveling around the world, it's where I met my ex husband. So we were actually flying together all around the world as well,

Jason Butler 16:05
Kevin crew as well. And he

Caroline Strawson 16:06
was he was so but again, even that money aspect of it. I was always looking. So when I obviously I met my husband and we got married. And then we bought our first home. It was it was me driving us to get stuff. And again, when I look back at knowing that feeling of not good enough, and I look at the spending aspect, I realized, you know, me buying stuff was also filling a need in me to feel worthy to feel good enough, you know, because if I bought something then in that moment, yay, that feels good. You know that that part of me that was feeling wounded at that particular time, I'm not good enough, spending on something would suit that particular wound. And I would feel marginally better in that moment.

Jason Butler 16:51
We're all spending is to meet a need, right? We know that. And the concept that many people have is filling the void. We all have voids, don't we all have that. And we just choose to fill it in different ways. So that's interesting. So at that stage, when you kind of just about got married, I'm just interested to know you still had the old historic debt from you needed, you were still paying that back?

Caroline Strawson 17:12
Very, very minimally, it was very negligible. So I didn't really have too much debt I might have, I think I probably had started to maybe have some credit cards at that stage and everything as well. But again, you know, not a huge amount, and we've kind of invested in got off offers time this is when they had 100% mortgages.

Jason Butler 17:33
So I'm just gonna say how did you get it? You didn't get a deposit? You just got

Caroline Strawson 17:37
that? Yeah, we did it when it was 100%. Mortgage? Yeah, absolutely. So we were able to get our first home like that.

Jason Butler 17:43
So presumably, between the two of you running not far short of 100 grand between us?

Caroline Strawson 17:48
Yeah, yeah, it was probably sort of after tax and everything else. Yeah, we were probably probably both probably taking home maybe 3000 pounds a month. Yeah. Again, never seem to have any money, so to speak. And when I look back, I think, you know, we didn't particularly have flash cars. You know, I've never been kind of a flashy person, but we just seem to have stuff and no savings.

Jason Butler 18:12
And what do you put that down to? Is it just the lack of a spending plan, you know, deciding where the money was

Caroline Strawson 18:16
gonna? Absolutely like you saying no budgeting, just you know, we might go into town one day, and I'd spend, you know, hundred and 50 pounds on some clothes and didn't bat an eyelid kind of thing. Because again, I suppose we didn't have any responsibility, so to speak, we haven't had got children at that stage. So it was just kind of what came in. We could spend we could go out there was for me, there was no thinking about necessarily of the future and an aesthetic and everything else as well. There was still this definite if it came in, it needed to go out.

Jason Butler 18:48
Yeah, you had to sort of almost get rid of it. Really? In a way it was kind of a hot potato, right? Yeah,

Caroline Strawson 18:52
absolutely. It was. And you know, if I'd got it it was like someone else might take it. So I better spend it

Jason Butler 18:59
Yeah, yeah. So there's a mixture of things get rid of it because you know, you know, it's not something I'm used. I'm not someone who has what we call aged money money sitting around and secondly, I want it now right you want that immediate fantasy

Caroline Strawson 19:12
it's a generational thing for us as well you know, we'd be getting letters through the door had this credit card had that credit card it was all very you know if you want it now you can have it now there was none of this savings or anything. It was just all really immediate.

Jason Butler 19:25
Yeah, I remember getting more offers to pay credit cards out I think than any other kind of post in the in the 90s Yeah, you're right. Okay, so so you and hubby we're we're sort of doing well flying around the world earning this money you managed to buy your first house of 100,000 mortgage now. Just before we get into that, did you ever and I think I probably know the answer to this but did you ever have the talk about how your your views about money and your what was important in life and how you're going to manage the day to day or was it just kind of did you just morph into it was one of you more strident than the others or what

Caroline Strawson 19:59
I When I looked back, I think I was probably a lot more ambitious than my ex husband about things. So I was always looking for that next level type of so I've always been sort of an ambitious woman. So it was always me. I think if it had been daunting, we probably wouldn't have even bought a house or anything without, you know, I was always thinking of the next thing and what we could do and the growth factor of things, I suppose, you know, just thinking that's what you do as an adult, you know, you get married, you buy a house, and then it be children. That's which it was, you know, and it was because again, following what my mom and dad did, but very much not in line with what they were doing around money. So no, we never really had any conversations. We had a joint bank account together, what went in, you know, obviously, we've got all of our bills going out of that and everything else. And then, you know, we both kind of spent it on whatever we wanted to really whatever was left,

Jason Butler 20:50
right. But but that's quite common, right? You're not alone. And if there's anyone listening to this, it's quite common for people to just muddle through that they don't have to sit down or they don't have the discussion or the who's going to do what it they just muddle through. So there's no shame in that. But if it's not getting you where you want to go, then perhaps it's time to rethink it. So, okay, so you bought the first house with 100,000? Sorry, the hundred percent mortgage. Yeah. Then what happened?

Caroline Strawson 21:15
So we then, um, obviously made some equity on that. And then we started to think about having a family. And again, school was really important to me, because it was really important to my parents. So it was kind of like, no, if we're going to obviously think about a family, we need to think about schools. So again, I'm very great forward thinking with everything else. But like I said, with money, not so. So we when I realized there is a new housing estate being built, there was very nice houses. So I knew that there would be a great school on there. So we bought one of the new houses that were on the site, and we've got a deposit this time, we've made some equity in the property. And we were able to

Jason Butler 21:56
still not saving, still not managing to say

Caroline Strawson 21:58
saving now. And when I

Jason Butler 22:01
say by the rising boats, right,

Caroline Strawson 22:03
yeah. And in some respects, when I look back, I think we were living month to month, we've got the money coming in. But we there was no contingency plan. There was no nothing. It was literally what payment kind of went out. We were living, we had a nice home. So it was like then

Jason Butler 22:19
it was luck for you at that stage.

Caroline Strawson 22:21
Yeah, well, I think so. Yeah, we were winging it. Okay. And then I fell pregnant with my son. And we had my son. So we were in this beautiful five bedroom house. And more, obviously, we've got a larger mortgage at that stage. And then I realized I didn't really want to go back to work full time, certainly not flying around the world whilst I've got my son. And I actually got a promotion while I was off on maternity leave, as well. And I actually ended up taking British Airways to our sex discrimination tribunal, and everything because of it. And you know, and they settled, which they never settled. So and they've since changed the ruling on it actually, as well in the handbook. But for me, I didn't want to go back to work full time or anything else, certainly not flying around the world. Now, my background was, I was a podiatrist. So I knew I could go and do that and sort of have my I could do home visits or my feet, right. It is, yeah, lower limbs stuff. So I sort of like the sports aspect of it as well. So. So we what we actually did was we were in this beautiful, nice, big five bedroom house. So we downsize. We had a child and we downsize then into a full bed, because what was happening at this stage with me being off maternity was really when I look back, the money coming in had gone down, but our spending habits has stayed the same. So again, just as you said that luck element, we've made some equity then in the five bedroom. So we use that equity to pay off any debt that we then accumulated in any

Jason Butler 23:53
commercial spending, yeah,

Caroline Strawson 23:55
for that. And then we downsized into a four bed detached house then as well. So we kind of, you know, we're in this nice big house and then had a child and downsize. But it was still a really nice house and everything as well. And then again, as time progressed, as we were living, you know, I wasn't really working, I was working extremely part time, then at that stage, and my husband was still working full time. And then when we started to think, okay, let's start to try for another baby. That's really probably when things started to go wrong in our marriage and everything then as well. So there's a whole host of things that happened in our marriage at that stage. I had four miscarriages between my son and then and then I'm actually having our daughter. And then when I was six months pregnant, there was, you know, a lot of things that happened during that time I stayed within the marriage. As far as I can. I again, my immediate thought was, how would I survive on my own as a single mom? You know, I'm totally really financially reliant on my husband at this stage. as well. So really, for me at that stage, I thought, No, keep your family together. I don't know how to survive. But I really lost myself from that stage that that, for me is really, I think the turning point for me in my marriage, I was existing within my marriage, I didn't realize because we actually split up. About three years later, I didn't actually realize I was in an abusive marriage at that stage, and emotionally abusive. And that in itself, you know, it chips away at your confidence, it chips away at who you are, it's very insidious. It doesn't happen overnight. So when I look back at the person I was during that time, I don't recognize her. It was just not me. But I was very much again, why I specialize in trauma and everything. Now, I didn't understand what happened really in the brain, the body, the mind was during these traumatic events, which was, you know, I was just literally what we call in functional free. So I was saying about my business doing what I needed to do, but I had no money. And I felt trapped, I felt stuck. And all I really was focusing on was my two children at that time, it was just being the best mom I could possibly be to them, and just stuck.

Jason Butler 26:10
So we've got a confluence of things here, we've got the, whatever the reasons, or the causes of it, the emotional breakdown of the marriage, we've got the fact that you've still overspending as a family or as a unit, you're Reliant for the inputs, most of the inputs from your then husband, and you've got these two little characters who are relying on you. So you've gone into, almost like now that hibernation mode, you can start your computer, you know, there's apparently doesn't get too many apps running or something. So you can sort things, you're probably in hibernation mode. But the money was a big issue for you in it. And it was, clearly it was one factor of money, if you'd had a million pound behind you, you may have made different decisions, right? Is that fair to say?

Caroline Strawson 26:51
Absolutely. Hundred percent, I would have made a difference. So I'm

Jason Butler 26:54
just thinking there, therefore, then the animosity in a relationship becomes even more pronounced because there's that feeling of impotence and feeling of lack of control, right? Because of because of whatever.

Caroline Strawson 27:05
Yes, but I think by nature of where I was, I was kind of just in survival mode. I wasn't necessarily even at that stage thinking about the money aspect. It was definitely more around what was it someone kind of a postman just been barking. So it was definitely around the fact that I was just in survival mode, it wasn't the money I was thinking about by that stage, it was just survival through the week. Now I get up and I take one hour at a time, because I felt so awful about myself. And again, when I talk about the parts aspects in the work that I do, as well, you know, a part of me would come up and I'd go and eat a load of stuff, because that would sue the numb that pain again, I'm not feeling good enough in my marriage. Or I might go and spend something because that would numb the pain of not feeling good enough in my marriage again. And again, this was going on for a couple of years. And, and really two years after my daughter was born, my mom passed away really firmly as well. So that really kind of took up another year of existence and going through and helping my dad and sorting lots of things out as well being a mom. And then a year, just over a year after my mom passed away, I remember things were really bad in

Unknown Speaker 28:28
America.

Caroline Strawson 28:31
And my husband said to me one day, you know, tell the kids I'm going to work early again. But this is it. He actually said that to me this time. Normally, you'd always just say I'm just going to work early and this time. So you know, that's it, it's over. But tell the kids I'm going to work early and actually said, Not this time. This is it. And I don't know what it was. It was something that switched in me. And I remember it was a Saturday when he said he was going and he literally sort of took 10 minutes to tell the kids and he'd gone. And I was kind of like there with my two children and thinking, oh my god, this is it. I'm a single mom. And I remember like my dad coming around. And we sat down and we looked at my finances and everything else. And I didn't realize actually how bad they were on that day. And as we were going through it, we were looking at you know, what would I need to work to earn this amount of tax credits, what would I need to do to survive, stay in the house and everything else like that? So it's really, really scary time. And then on Monday, I think I spent the whole day on the phone to various, you know, the gas electricity. Is there any tariff switches? And it's interesting. I've never done that before. But knowing that I was literally right. I'm a rock bottom now Caroline kick in. And I was on the phone and everyone was so lovely to me. But what transpired then over the coming weeks was the amount of debt we were actually in

Jason Butler 29:49
and you weren't aware of it.

Caroline Strawson 29:51
Not all of it. No, it it was over 70,000 pounds on top of your mortgage on top of the mortgage credit card. Yeah, credit cards, loans, overdrafts. Yeah. And when I look around, I thought we don't actually have anything. So I don't know how or where all of this has come from.

Jason Butler 30:13
So how did you feel? Then at that moment? I know, obviously the relationship come to an end. But that was but how did you was that really painful?

Caroline Strawson 30:20
It was scary. It was scary thinking mainly about my kids thinking, Oh, my God, how am I going to support my two children here, you know, these two people that were my world, to give them the childhood that I desperately wanted to give them. And all I kept thinking was, Oh, my God, I'm going to end up in a house. And now I won't say the area in Northampton. But I'm going to end up in a house in this area in a rough area. Yeah, I get that from a broken home now. And again, all of this negative language is kicking in, which of course, was really activating my core wound of not feeling good enough, as a mom, as a wife, as a woman, all of these things were kicking in for me, and I was just so so scared, you know, what was I going to do? And it was a really, really scary time. And it gets even more scary as we

Jason Butler 31:12
go. It just interesting before we go that we sometimes confuse the fact that we've had a mistake, or a failing or a setback with Actually, that's who we are. So instead of saying, I've had a, I've experienced a failure, we say I am a failure, or I've not been good with money. I'm useless with money. You know, it's that kind of we and so that's interesting. So carry on. Yeah, it's interesting.

Caroline Strawson 31:31
And I think you're right there, Jason, because it that really comes back to those childhood beliefs. And as well, you know, my core childhood belief was, I'm not good enough, which is obviously to come from my father. It wasn't that he was a bad dad, it was my interpretation of his actions towards me and his capability. So that was running through the whole thing, just as you say, having all this debt, you know, my husband's left, even though really, it was a good thing that he had. And it was all of those things about See, I'm not good enough. See, I'm not a good enough mother. Absolutely. I'm a bad mom, you know, how am I going to support my children on all of this, the life I wanted to give them was suddenly slipping away. And I was getting older and thought, because I'm going backwards here. You know, I didn't envisage this when my parents were eating me happily ever after ladybird fairytales, as a child, it was not on my agenda, you know, and then all of a sudden, I was becoming everything that I didn't want to become through, you know, really no fault of my own from the marriage perspective. You know, but I've got this no money to support me with that. And that, really, for me, it was the kids and the money that were the biggest, biggest fears for me, how can I be a good mom for my kids? And how the heck am I going to survive? So how did them

Jason Butler 32:47
What happened?

Caroline Strawson 32:48
So then I contacted stepchange, I kind of found out what was in my name, what I need

Jason Butler 32:54
to sorry, anyone doesn't know sorry, step changes, a debt charity that helps people who are vulnerable, financially very, very good organization. Brilliant. Yeah,

Caroline Strawson 33:02
they are that and they were brilliant. So what they did was, so once I figured out 23,000 was in my name, my dad was great. He helped me as much as he possibly could, as well. So my dad really helped me get a new car. So I got this little run around car. And he also helped me actually get a divorce as well. So he paid for the divorce, and he helped me get around car, the actual debt, then I contacted stepchange, there was I think there was seven creditors for me. So all those seven creditors, then we got down to a payment plan, I knew my credit would be shocked. But you know, I needed to survive. So over that period of time, then we tried to cut down some of the payments and everything else as well. And, you know, but again, still with what my ex husband was giving me. And what I was earning, I was really trapped. Because what has happened, Jason was I was back working running a clinic for a podiatry clinic. But again, my ex husband was hardly seeing the children. My dad was in his 70s. So childcare was an issue. So I was kind of in this place where I was stuck. If I started to do more hours in my clinic, I lose a massive chunk of my tax credit, actually, probably more than if I stayed where I was. So I was literally probably the money coming in with childcare didn't equal the money then that I was spending, but it was like What do I do if I work more, I'm going to have even less if I don't work, I haven't got enough money anyway. And he got to the stage Jason where I'd have letters coming through the door, didn't open them. I didn't dare open them. I just buried my head in the sand. I was so in a space of coping in survival, just looking after my kids. That that from and this is again from a trauma perspective and my capacity to cope at that stage. Little did I know was actually suffering with complex PTSD as well. That my capacity to cope with beyond that it just wasn't there. So I'd get envelopes, I put them in the bin unless I could see that they were a red bill or council tax, I didn't want to go to prison. So those were the things I kind of dealt with, just because I had to as they get everything else. And what I would do is, you know, as they would come in, you know, this would bounce that would bounce, my ex would be sending child maintenance lates, all of my bills would be bouncing all the time. And it was so stressful. And I remember contacting like Gas and Electric, sometimes one month when it bounced and just say, all my cards been cloned. And you know, I'm a single mom, and they obviously felt sorry for me, they said, Okay, we'll just reset up the direct debit for next month. And I thought,

Jason Butler 35:48
this is stressful and believable stress. How did you get through it?

Caroline Strawson 35:52
I don't know. I literally I do not know, I was in this state of anxiety all of the time. I wasn't sleeping. I was literally I just literally was in survival mode. You know, I was in that freeze survival mode of, Okay, I just need to do what I need to do today to get through today. And to make sure the kids are okay. And

Jason Butler 36:16
a turning point for you out of that that fog, that terror.

Caroline Strawson 36:20
The turning point was in April 2013, I actually had my home repossessed. So that for me was the rock bottom, the money coming in, and don't get me wrong, I had a mortgage, the mortgage company were fantastic, I can't fault them. They were really great and supportive, and they lowered my payments. But I still couldn't afford it. So I literally, because of the nature of Ben how the housing market was, if I sold it, it would cost me more because of fees, solicitors fees, estate agents fees, I wasn't getting any support from anybody else. So I literally the only option was my credit was already shot anyway. So I just handed the keys back. I just literally handed them back and they got repossessed, I moved into rented accommodation, obviously, I'm still in the same state, but a much smaller property. And, and in some respects, I always look back on that time, it was probably my lowest point. But equally, that was then the catalyst for me turning right. Was it was I hit 40 that year as well. And for me, I remember sitting there One morning, I'm thinking, Okay, Caroline, you have two avenues to go down here. One, you can sit in this victim mentality now for the rest of your life and keep thinking for me, or you can get off your backside and you can go and do something about it. And luckily, I chose the latter.

Jason Butler 37:40
Okay, so that's really interesting. But some people are so low, there's they've drained completely, just in case anyone is listening to this or anyone who knows someone. If you are really that low, and you've Can't you feel you're going to take the the route which is not about you know, you don't feel you can pull your bootstraps up, we'll deal with it. Then you can speak to people like mind or saying or any of those charities Samaritans to talk through how you might make that first step. But nevertheless,

Caroline Strawson 38:07
in your mind, it is that first step and even even now with my clients, teeny tiny steps. The one bit of advice I would give to people is don't bury your head. People are lovely. People are so helpful. And there are so many thousands of people in the same situation that you are not alone.

Jason Butler 38:26
You're not alone. You're not stupid. You're not stupid. No, no, I'm an

Caroline Strawson 38:29
intelligent woman. I disagree. Yeah, it does. happen.

Jason Butler 38:35
Yeah. So okay, so you That was the turning point. Did you did you ever have a never again moment then? So although that's a catalyst Did you then say I never want to be in a situation because I've worked as you know, I do a lot of work all around the country for employers. And when I do the clinics of getting control of money, I talked about this concept of the never again minute because I had that situation in my 20s never again, am I going to open a letter that says we're going to just about to this that never never again Am I gonna go to the cash machine and not get any cash on my car, get swallow. Never again, am I getting embarrassed to tell my wife I'm getting money. So you have that? Never again moment?

Caroline Strawson 39:09
100% never again, am I ever going to be in this situation. And I was like, I'm not sure quite how I'm going to get out of this situation right now. But I am going to make sure that I am never ever ever reliant on anybody else ever again. I need to do this for myself. Okay.

Unknown Speaker 39:26
So then what happened then?

Caroline Strawson 39:29
So the in the October of that year, so I still working as a podiatrist at this day, but in the October I actually started a little home based business, and that I didn't really know what I was doing at the start, I was still suffering with anxiety. And I'd also Previous to that been self harming. I had been diagnosed with depression complex PTSD, but the anxiety was still there at that stage. And so I started this little home based business but started to use Facebook to build it and it was As a network marketing business, and within 12 months of starting that business, I built a team where we were turning over a million pounds worth of product as well here, within a year. Yeah, I literally paid off all my debt, I was debt free, I was enjoying free holidays with this company, I was getting bonus checks with them as well. I was on a six figure income within that 12 months as well. And it was just phenomenal the turnaround the drive that I had, you know, I've always been a really hard work, I've got a fantastic work ethic. And with having a science background, I look at things in a very scientific way. So I was almost using sex looking at Facebook, like a science, you know, how can I use Facebook, so I didn't want to go out to build my business. And that's exactly what I did. So I use Facebook built my business. And I really stayed doing that I gave up to being a podiatrist within about 18 months as well, because it meant I could be a total stay at home mom, I could totally build my business. And I could take my kids to school, pick them up, be the mom I wanted to be, but I also got the fight financially, I was sorted. And whilst I loved all of that, I still felt like there was something missing, as well. And that was the meaning and wanting to help other people, Wally, they've been through things that I had as I started to retrain in lots of things then as well, of what I wanted to create in my own therapy and coaching business then as well.

Jason Butler 41:23
Just before we get into that, and that's the fascinating bit, I really want to hear that that bit as well. But how do you learn your lessons from the past about lifestyle creep and spending more than you earn and impulse spending? How are you? How are you, because the danger of suddenly going from zero to not just here over genius, by the sounds of it, is that you start going back into old ways old habits old spending, because you because I'm worth it, or I'm just based on just that, and you don't learn from the past.

Caroline Strawson 41:46
Yeah, so so you make a really, really good point that and whilst consciously, I was saying to myself, while course I'm enough, look, I'm earning all of this, the core wound was still there. So when I would still be getting triggers of that core wound of not being good enough, my go twos, again, will go and eat, and go and spend money. And they were still there. And this is again, why I talk to people a lot about talking therapy and stuff. If we're not accessing parts of the brain where that trauma is actually start. No matter how much you can keep telling yourself all of these things, sometimes we've got to go to that part of the brain, using certain therapies then to release all of that. So whilst on the whole, it was better, it still wasn't right. Because again, I was still getting a lot of ongoing stuff with my ex husband and everything as well. So you know, that in those moments was very, very triggering still for me. And then I would spend money.

Jason Butler 42:44
So although you fixed the problem of not having income and you you were past what I call the low point, you still hadn't fixed. You were you're putting water in the bucket. Now. It wasn't empty, but there was still a hole in the bottom right?

Caroline Strawson 42:56
Absolutely. Right. The hole is still there.

Jason Butler 42:59
Yeah. Tell us how you Then did you fix that through your training? You then did your training?

Caroline Strawson 43:05
Yeah. So then really, I started to look to heal myself, I kind of was recognizing all of this, and through my own self healing. And also then the training, you know, I looked at all the things that I thought would work, the best types of trauma therapies in the world, the coaching aspects in the world. So I kind of retrained in so in what I believe to be the best in the world. So I do something called EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. It's really recognized as one of the best treatments for trauma and brain spotting rapid transformational therapy. I flew out to San Diego and did a high performance coaching certification with a man called Brendon Burchard, highly regarded as the top high performance coach in the world. I've I've trained in internal family systems, so evidence based parts therapy, I've just about finished my Master's in positive psychology and coaching psychology. So really, all of the things that I felt I needed, and I studied and looked at that I thought would work I trained in and then I wanted to because I wanted to create a really unique integration of therapies to help other people with this, and again along the way, for me to build my business doing that. So for me to start my network marketing business, I obviously was used to a certain income at that stage. So for me to stop doing that it's still got some passive income coming from it anyway, that's the nature of the business. But I knew if I was earning sort of, you know, 8009 10,000 pounds a month, I needed to match that with whatever I was then going to decide to do because by this stage, I enrolled my children into private education. So I've got outgoings then but I needed to maintain to keep moving forward. So again, this is when I started to build that business then on Facebook and Instagram and you know, created a following of people. Pull, looked at building a business. So it was really interesting. Although I, you know, my core passion is helping people that trauma and therapy coaching aspect, I'm also really consider myself as a female entrepreneur as well. So I love that aspect of building businesses and using the online space to be able to do all of that. So, you know, in that those moments, then I started. And I would say, I probably started to build my business in that once I retrained and started to create this unique integration, which I call true self trauma, reprogramming, and built that. And now where I sit today, I run a multiple six figure income coaching and therapy business, all through Instagram, and Facebook.

Jason Butler 45:41
That's fantastic. It's a lovely story. But But can I just go two steps back, I just want to know what the impact was on you doing this training and healing yourself on your spending and the impact on your personal financial situation, because you can earn all the money in the world. But even still, if the, if the poll is equal, or a bit bigger than the money coming in the water coming in the bucket, and it's going to dripping out the bottom, you're never going to get ahead. Oh,

Caroline Strawson 46:03
you're absolutely right. And again, it was the belief about myself of not being good enough, I needed to go and heal that wound of not feeling good enough to recognize not just that I thought I wasn't good enough, I needed to feel it. You know, trauma is very much a body experience as well. So in those moments, I needed to recognize when I felt activated, because someone had said something or an event has happened that that activation, and then my actions with that wasn't me wasn't my true self. That was a part of me coming up to try and protect me, soothe me distract me away from feeling that core wound of not being good enough. But again, when I went and process that core wound, and realized it wasn't that I wasn't good enough, it was my interpretation. And I was able to do that in the part of the brain where it had got stuck and clear that from my body, it meant when these people who still haven't changed even to this day, still behave in that way. I didn't need to protect a wound any longer. Because that wound wasn't there. I feel the way because it didn't actually need to be there in the first place. But it just got stuck. It got wired in is that tight. So I needed to go in and heal that. And then once that was healed, I don't need to spend money to feel good. I don't need that my starting point is I not only know I'm good enough, I feel I'm good enough to know that he triggers me with that for me then to try and soothe or distract me away from it.

Jason Butler 47:33
How did your spending then change? How did your spending priorities your spending habits your spending impulses change? Because that's the key, right? It's not what you earn? It's what you keep?

Caroline Strawson 47:42
Correct? Correct. So yes, so I created various parts. And so I have, you know, my school fees, I've got my tax my VAT, or, you know, I've got holiday ferns I've got. So you know, I am a

Jason Butler 47:57
petitioner, the petitioner And so

Caroline Strawson 48:00
yeah, I do all of that. And I feel great doing that I feel in control of my life. And by doing

Jason Butler 48:06
that, Karen Do you then also you've got to say your funnel your privilege spot that you don't have to feel bad about it, you can just if you want to have the handbag or you want to have that treatment, or whatever it is, that's okay. 16 that partner is not sabotaging the rest of your situation.

Caroline Strawson 48:20
Correct. And what I also found with all of that, as well as I'm, I'm now a lot more thoughtful in what I spend, you know, I bought a new car about six weeks ago, and I could have gone out and bought a really fast car if I wanted to, you know, but I thought our two cars do it for me. No, I want something nice and comfortable for me and the kids to go to school and everything else. So I actually just upgraded the car that I already had because it does the job. It's great. It's lovely. It's nice. So again, for that moment, I thought I shall I thought No, you know what, I'll save a bit and I would like experiences for me I like making memories and experiences I know life is short. And you know whilst I equally want to have money and save it I equally want to experience my life as well. You know, I want to enjoy it I will create memories with my children that they can now look back on it. You know, we love traveling as a family. So you know my biggest expense really that I have is on holidays although that's been harder this year obviously with the COVID but we still managed to go away to Greece at the end of August as well. So you know for me it's very much about you know, creating that saving mentality and knowing again that I'm going to be okay but still living my life so I wouldn't say I'm this not I'm certainly not like my mom when I'm Penny pinching of anything and I'm you know, down to the I do know to the pounds what I've got and what are international now right? You're in too bad. I I am not scared of looking in my bank account. No, I'm not scared about what I'm going to see. Whereas before, I just didn't even want to look in my account, I think at one stage, I had about 25 pence in my bank account, because I wasn't even allowed an overdraft at that stage. So, you know, I just didn't want to see it. Whereas now I'm quite happy, obviously quite happy to look at it and move money around and have all of those things as well. And really, my my next goal as well is to buy my own home again. So you know, that's what I'm saving for at the moment, I want to get on that property ladder again, and have a house in my name that I'm responsible for that I know I will be able to pay off,

Jason Butler 50:34
it's probably fair to say that it's working progress, it's never finished. Okay, now, you've come great guns, and it's a lovely story to hear. So no matter how low you get, you can always turn this around, but you'll never finished and you're, you're always got things you're doing and you still got loads of life to live. So before we finish up, and get some sort of thoughts on your your top tip. So just want to, if you can just give us a sort of very quick thing about what it is you actually do. What's your core offering service sort of Proposition just so that people who are listening who might want to find out more know what you do?

Caroline Strawson 51:05
Well, really, if you feel like you're not living the life that you feel you should be that you have these blocks, and these can come in from addictions and self sabotage, procrastination, you know, any of these that you know, if they weren't in your life, you'd be living the life you know, you should as your true self. That's what I work with. You know, when we talk about trauma, Jason, a lot of people think Oh, that must mean abuse, neglect, you know, all these, it really isn't, you know, trauma is actually overwhelmed to our system that causes us to have an incapacity to cope in certain situations, that is trauma. You know, when I never thought I had a bad childhood, and I did it, but it was still trauma to me to feel like I wasn't good enough, because my dad's actions. So it really doesn't have to mean when we talk about trauma, something really, really traumatic. It's trauma to you. So you know, if you feel like you, you've got these blocks, whether it be major traumas, well, you know, I deal a lot with childhood sexual abuse, PTSD, complex, PTSD, domestic abuse, but equally, you know, it can just be if you feel like you've got these blocks, because these are parts of you showing up that is stopping you. But normally, we don't want them there. But actually, I help you befriend them, give them a different wall, and we process that through as well.

Jason Butler 52:22
Interesting. So your website, what's that?

Caroline Strawson 52:25
So my website is www.carolinestrawson.com.

Jason Butler 52:29
And you're running Instagram. I know you've got an enormous Instagram thing. You've got to check this out people. What's your Instagram handle?

Caroline Strawson 52:35
though? Yeah, just @carolinestrawson. They literally everything on social media is Caroline Strawson was Yeah, I hit 10,000 followers about three or four weeks ago, and that's a biggie on Instagram.

Jason Butler 52:46
believable, and I've seen some of your stuff for my daughter who handled she manages all my platforms. She just said this lady is a powerhouse, She's. She's very discerning Daisy, she's 21. She knows about all of this stuff on it. She lives on it. And she just said this lady's awesome. So you've got one fan there. But you've got 10,000 fans,

Caroline Strawson 53:03
I only I only started building it about 11 months ago, I thought I need to take that seriously. Next. So I was doing everything on Facebook. And here's

Unknown Speaker 53:11
it here's the

Jason Butler 53:12
interesting thing I've noticed whether it's Facebook, whether it's instagram, whether it's a website, whatever is your material is good, because it's coming from a right place, because you are an authentic person, right? You've you. And here's the thing, no one has a perfect life. And your experiences, your experiences, and other people have different experiences, but you're just trying to share your expertise and insights to help people be the best version of themselves, not tell them what it is, right. And that's why it works. So well.

Caroline Strawson 53:36
Yeah, you're right. And because again, I do a lot of positive psychology and in positive psychology, we have something called the perma profile. So these are what we call the six pillars that can really help you have optimal living. And one of those The M is meaning. So for me having meaning even if I can put content out there that helps somebody one person one day, that for me is about meaning. And, you know, I've had to create things in my business for that where I can support people if they have no money, because I know what that's like, all the way up to want to see if they want to a premium VIP one to one working with me. And I need to do that I need to satisfy my need in having meaning in my life.

Jason Butler 54:15
And you say it's the mixture between pleasure those experiences and day to day things. And purpose, this sense of making a difference are all different price points and zero and that's great. So that before you go Caroline you've been very gracious, you've been very open, you've been, you know, wonderfully inspiring us a lovely story. I love hearing the stories of how people come overcome challenges, because this is one thing I think a lot of younger people struggle with is that you are going to have a lot of stuff happening in your life. Right, and the setbacks and the obstacles and the missteps and failures or whatever you want to call it. That's part of life. It's how you react to it and how you come back from it that matters. So what's your sort of top tips or your kind of wisdom that you wish you'd known when you're 18 that you could share with people as it relates to their relationship with money?

Caroline Strawson 54:58
I think you know, Talk, like we were saying earlier, if you feel like your money is escalating out of control, talk to somebody. Now, if you are 18, that doesn't have to be your parents, there are plenty of, you know, online spaces, people that you can speak to don't bury your head in the sand, because it can very quickly spiral out of control, as I know. So, you know, talk to people, see what other people are doing, whether that be following someone online or something. But for me, you know, money, really, and I see this with so many of my clients, money is at the root of so many of these issues as well, because we all need money to survive, right? In our society, we do need that just really like we need food. So, you know, I'd say two of the main things that I talk about a lot with my clients is when they binge eat, or they spend too much money, but again, that's beyond a wounds that they are feeling. So I would always ask people, if you feel like you're doing this, what's behind all of that? You spending that money says What about you, and it's always bringing it back to you know, it's not events in our life that makes us feel or act the way that we do. It's actually these events and people and then what you say to yourself about that I'm not good enough. I'm not worthy. I'm not lovable. I'm, you know, I don't matter I, I'm not safe, all of these things. That's what we can work on. You have the power of all of this. This is why some people are successful. And then some people aren't, it's all available to all of us. The key here is what you are saying to yourself on a daily basis. And when we can change that, you can change everything.

Jason Butler 56:37
Wonderful note to let them finish on. Caroline, thank you very much for your time. It's been wonderful talking to you. I can talk to you for hours and hours and hours. I hope to have you back on the show again. But we'll make sure also links are on the show notes. If you've missed them when you were listening to her website, Instagram, Facebook. Thank you very much for being on the show.

Caroline Strawson 56:57
Thank you so much for asking me. Thank you.

Jason Butler 57:03
Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me, Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai