71. Kalpana Fitzpatrick Freelances To Financial Independence

This week I speak to Kalpana Fitzpatrick, finance editor for Hearst magazines, which includes Good Housekeeping, Red, Prima, Cosmopolitan.

Kalpana’s parents taught her the importance of education and a good career to achieving financial independence. After university Kalpana pursues a career in journalism; which evolved into writing about personal finance.

Determined and ambitious, Kalpana now holds the position of finance editor for Hearst magazines and is the resident money expert for BBC Sounds Money 101 podcast. Her passion for talking about women and money, financial literacy for children, and young people and money see her featured regularly on TV, radio and conference panels.

Episode Transcript

0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more.

Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk For more details, and remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invest in.

Hello, thanks for joining me on another edition of real money stories. In this week's episode, I've got an interview with financial journalist Kalpana Fitzpatrick, we talk about the idea of passing on loyalty points when someone passes away and how you can make sure that your family doesn't lose out. And I also share with you some of the questions I've been asked over the last few weeks at various financial well being webinars I've been hosting and the answers that I've been giving people.

But first, I don't know if you're aware of this, but there's nearly 5.7 billion pounds is accumulated on loyalty schemes and reward schemes each year in the UK. And apparently 93% of people have no idea that these loyalty points and bonuses and promotions can be transferred when someone passes away. My friends at king's court trust have been doing sort of some research into this.

And they found that only 5% of people aged over 55 who've made a will have actually mentioned anything about rewards or digital assets in their will. So I've got thinking about this and you know whether you use Tesco, Sainsbury's, avios, whatever it is, it can actually be quite a lot. And I'm sure there's probably quite a lot of people passing away with, you know, could be 234, or even 1000 pounds worth of loyalty benefits all over the place. So let's just talk through a few of the most the largest schemes that people use. So we got Tesco Clubcard, one of the biggest loyalty schemes in the UK, that gives you a pound to spend for every 150 points. So that can actually add up to quite a lot of money if you've got some with 1000s and 1000s of points.

Basically, when someone dies, Tesco will allow the estate or beneficiaries to inherit those points, all you've got to do is contact the customer service center. Sainsbury's nectar points, now they can be transferred to when someone passes away. But they have to be transferred to another nectar card holder. So if you are the recipient of those, then you're going to need to open a nectar card we've seen spreads if you don't already have one. And they just need to see evidence that you've got legal title, so it's probably a copy of the probate or will or something. But each case is done on a case by case basis. bhoots advantage apparently is the longest running loyalty card in the UK. And that gives you a penny for every point. So that's worth that's well worth having. And boots will allow you to transfer those points. When someone passes away, you just need to contact their customer service center cost a coffee, they give you a one p for every point. And they will allow you to transfer a deceased person's points to their beneficiaries or heirs. You just have to do that via their website. And there's a procedure to follow. Now at the Austin, I have a couple of 100,000 avios points from various flying I've done over the years. They're apparently not normally transferable on death as a standard terms and conditions. But there is evidence that some people have approached VA. And actually they have agreed to transfer points on death. So I think the the message there is it's worth contacting VA, if someone in your family passes away or a friend that you're dealing with their estate, and ask if they will transfer the points. It's probably the only transfer obviously to someone who's got an obvious account. So there we go. There's lots and lots of other reward schemes. But just remember, if you are dealing with the estate of someone, or somebody in your family who's passed away, it's well worth just asking, did they have any loyalty or reward schemes because that could be several 100 pounds that could be very useful to some members in the family. So that's well worth looking at their most weeks, I'm doing a financial wellbeing webinar for employees for all different types of employers all around the UK. And a feature of my webinars is that I get asked quite a lot of questions in the live q&a section towards the end of the presentation. So I thought it would be good to just share with you some recent questions I've been asked live and the kind of answers I've been giving in in the hope that you You can benefit from that or people that, you know, bear in mind, this is not financial advice, but this is just general the educational guidance that I've been giving people in answer to their questions. So he goes, let's just share with you some recent ones. First one is this with saving accounts and current accounts offering such low interest. would you suggest any other investment? Or my answer was this, I'm not able to provide personal financial advice. But the eight money milestones framework I teach will help you work out your financial priorities, and how you might deploy your cash. It usually makes sense to use cash to repay non mortgage debt. But you do need a pot of cash of between three to six months of essential expenses as insurance against emergencies, or a drop in income or unexpected expenses. The interest rate earned on your emergency fund is not really the issue because the money is insurance against the unexpected. overpaying the home mortgage is a risk free tax free return equal to the interest saved, as well as enabling you to become mortgage free earlier. Longer term funds, which needs to match or exceed price inflation are usually best allocated to a diversified investment portfolio that includes cash, bonds and equities, and to take financial advice if you're unsure of what to do. This next question was do you have any tips about saving for children? This was my answer. Give a choice of saving money in your own name, and notionally earmark it for your child. This gives you the flexibility to use the money for your own needs. Should that be necessary and avoid the child getting control over the funds at age 18. The downside is that it will be in your state for inheritance tax, bankruptcy or future divorce purposes.

You could save in an account that is designated for your child but managed by you until they are 18. If you do this fire a junior eisah, which you can put up to 9000 pounds each tax year, you will avoid any income over 100 pounds per tax year being assessed against you and your tax rate. But the child will get control at age 18. If you do it via a child's personal pension, the contribution gets a bonus of 25% of the amount invested up to 2880. Before bonus, but the child can't get access until they're within 10 years of the state pension age which is currently 67. So that's going to be 57. In the early stage, it's probably going to get later as well. However, you decide to hold the money. If the need is less than 10 years, then you need to look at cash type holdings to avoid losing money. If you must access to funds at the same time as a market for if the time horizon is 10 years or more, then you'll potentially make higher returns and have time to ride out day to day fluctuations in value associated with investing in company shares. A globally diversified index fund offers a simple and low cost way to invest in shares but take professional advice if you're unsure. Number one here, when saving for a pension is your workplace pension the best place to save or should you invest it elsewhere. This is what I answered it by assuming you've sorted out money, milestones 124, it makes sense to invest as much as you can into your workplace pension as is necessary to get the maximum match contribution from your employer.

If you're in a defined contribution plan, as most people are, then your employer would normally match your contribution up to a certain amount. I mean, you have to put in 3%, but many employers will put more in for our example one of the massive big biggest retailers, they'll put up to seven and a half percent if their employees put 7% is that makes 15% in total, which is actually the minimum contribution that I recommend, and I teach under money milestone five. So any match contributions from your employer is free money, and you wouldn't get that otherwise. So once you're contributing at least the amount you need to get your employer's maximum contribution to the pension. You can then investigate the suitability of looking at other types of investment accounts including lifetime are standardizes. But wherever you invest your money make sure it's invested appropriately and if in any doubt, take advice from a regulated financial adviser. All this was a good one. This is the one I just finished with any guidance for when you have a pension frozen with a former employer. So this is why I how I answered it. pensions from past employment will be one of two types it may be a defined benefit type where you'll be paid a certain annual amount from the scheme's normal retirement age, the pension will be revalued each year by the rate of inflation usually up to a maximum of 5% both before and after retirement. So in that sense, it isn't frozen. Or it will be a defined contribution type where you have a pot of money that's invested in the funds of your choice or a default fund. chosen for you by the scheme trustees. Now in this case the fund will grow in line with whatever investment returns are achieved, it may or may not grow much, but he isn't frozen. It can sometimes make sense to bring several smaller, old defined contribution type plans together. That's known as consolidation if you can reduce the costs and improve the investment approach, but pensions can be complicated, and you should take advice on whether it makes sense to consolidate your old benefits into either your existing workplace pension or a separate plan or an existing scheme. If you're self employed. If the cashing value of any defined benefits pension is 30,000, or more than you are legally obligated to take regulated financial advice on this is the final question I'm going to finish with. Does the 15% contribution suggested in your money milestones as the ideal amount for pension and retirement planning include the employers contribution? Or is it just the person contribution? So my answer was this, it relates to your personal contribution only any matching or free contribution from your employer should be treated as a bonus. And the rationale is because throughout your working lifetime, you might have periods of self employment, unemployment or career break, or working for an employer that contributes only the legal minimum. So that's what we teach. But again, don't be putting tons into pension if you've got debt, so you haven't got an adequate emergency fund or your personal situation, your employment prospects look a bit dodgy. So hopefully, that's helped help you there. I love answering questions live. And there's lots and lots of questions and there's no silly questions. If you got a question for me, please do contact me via my website, Jason hyphen, butler.com or contact me via Instagram or Twitter and direct message me with your question, and I'll answer it on another future podcast. Okay, that's, that's me enough for me. Let's get on to this week's interview with Kalpana Fitzpatrick

Hello, and thanks for joining me again on another edition of real money stories, the podcast where I speak to real people about their money experiences, their money journey, their money views, and money beliefs. And today I'm joined by a well I would say I describe as kind of a social media kind of meet your I would describe her as

Kalpana Fitzpatrick Is that right? Did I say it right.

12:23
Kalpana.

12:25
Kalpana Fitzpatrick sorry. Hi, thanks for joining us. That's how I see you quite a lot on social media. So I've described you as a meteor on the basis that you're sort of going very fast in this direction of sharing your wisdom and ideas and, and I do really strongly recommend people keep an eye on you because we have people on the show that we think are interesting. So before we get into just sort of sharing some of your your thoughts about money? Do you want to just tell everyone what you do for your day job?

12:54
Sure. I'm a financial journalist. And I work for Hearst magazine. So I write money articles for magazines, such as good housekeeping, read cosmopolitan, and prima.

Yeah, and occasionally I speak on panels. I'm a money expert on the BBC money one on one podcast. So and I do speak on other podcasts as guests. So yeah, kind of money is my thing. So I'm quite passionate about this podcast.

13:24
Yeah, good. Well, I know you're busy lady. So thanks for carving out some time with us today. But I'm just trying to think where this all came from. So what was it? What was your earliest sort of money? Thoughts? I mean, can you remember your earliest money thoughts growing up and, and the role it had in your family?

13:42
And I do, I think, I'd say money's been around me pretty much as far back as I can remember. And pretty much stemming from my dad. So there's a number of things first, and so my parents used to have a shop, and quite sadly, we got burgled a few times. And I remember actually being around when it was happening. And I think that kind of, you know, that stress they put on the family, how it made them feel that you know that loss of income, the stress and just kind of made me actually money is really important. And I always saw my parents work really, really hard. So that's the first thing it gave me my attitude to realize that money is important when you don't have it or there isn't enough of it. It's you know, it's a lot of stress on the family and life isn't as enjoyable. So I learned that the importance of keeping track of it and being in control of it. My parents from a very young age, the thing that they did was I had an IFA, or planner, and used to come into the family home, you know, he's he was very always regularly. And I'll see my parents having discussions about their pension or their savings and bank accounts and mortgages. And so it was kind of just like, I'm hearing it. They're not talking to me about it directly in any way.

14:58
So it's like a low level low level. In the background, you're aware of it, right?

15:02
It was around me. And actually, this is something you know, money's important, my boxing my parents talking about it to this guy quite regularly. So, you know, we got to know he reaches out to him and chat to him as well. So you know. And another thing that my, my dad did really well actually, and this is what really got me going is when we kind of a little bit older, 10 ish, he took my brother and I to the high street and said, choose any bank and open an account, and I'll put some money in it for you. And at the time, I have to admit, it was about the little gifts that you've got. So I I wanted the dictionary actually. And also, I want the dictionary from that bank. And that will help piggyback the halifaxes on big anyway. So you know, that kind of started our savings journey, like, we used to kind of compete with each other walk more money that you I've got more money than you. And also in the Indian background, giving money as a gift is very normal. So someone gives you five pounds or 10 pounds here in vaes. It's normal, you know, you don't get toys and stuff. So we might not have appreciated the fact that you know, we weren't getting the sort of, you know, materialistic gift, but they did give us money, we were quite sensible, we got we're gonna go into my bank account all the time winning. So as soon as I saw that money grow, I think it just kind of got me into that savings habit. And finally, at the age of 16, I had a Saturday job so and I used to work all my holidays

16:29
for your mom and dad or for someone else.

16:31
I worked in a shoe shop when I was 16. And kind of just doing it every Saturday and studying obviously at same time. And that kind of gave me my own money and independence as well. So I've been quite independent with my money from a young age to say, and that's my money story.

16:46
Yeah, I'm interesting. I just want to unpack that thing about you mentioned that your mom and dad had sort of financial trauma in the sense that the shop was burgled or and obviously like any business, it's had a whack. That must have been and you said you saw the stress of that? What? What did that? What impact do you think that had on you? I know you said you thought that money was important. But But did it make you feel sort of less secure, and therefore didn't have any emotional connection with you? Or was it just more of a functional thing, you just don't, you know, don't want that.

17:14
I was very young. That six or seven. And the reason why it's in my memory is because I remember playing around my dad at the time the burglars came in. And I still didn't realize that they were burglars and something bad was happening. But when they made my dad empty detail. And he was getting quite angry with me to get out of the way. And I was like, I'm just playing, you know. But I think obviously even children that that say, you know, they realize that Actually, no, I've got stopped playing. So I think I just it was just you know, it was a horrible experience. And my dad was in the newspaper because, you know, trying to catch capture these people because it happened twice. And obviously they're done other stuff. And I think, you know, we still have those old news article clippings. And I think eventually, you know, it did result in my parents setting up. And I remember very vaguely kind of looking around, like trying to buy houses up, you know, they're looking at other properties. And but just the fact that you know, it, I think it was more just being around their being in the moment. And then I don't know if it's necessarily the fact that they got burgled and and how they felt afterwards that it was just being there. But also just generally I felt my parents were, you know, they came into the UK in the 60s. So I think they've had to work that extra hard to get to where they want to. And actually they've done extremely well because of all the planning stuff. But because of that I always felt like there was always this like, money's not there to be wasted. And that's the attitude that they've always had. And yeah, and I think you know, that there's been a burglary probably bought that message home, if you see what I mean. Well, I think the reason why it's looking late, just because I was very in the moment being quite silly was playing, but that's just like, this is serious, you can get hurt really badly. So

19:04
yeah. So that's a vulnerability that most people don't experience. Okay. But interestingly, because I have quite a few second third generation immigrant guests on and their parents are very entrepreneurial, and they have to be, and I'm interested just to explore that issue of self reliance. And you know, this issue with, obviously, people have had terrible situations with COVID or whatever, but this mentality of expecting someone else to help you Well, I don't detect that in most of my immigrant friends or or the immigrant families that have guests that I interview. So to what extent do you think that people who let's just say aren't immigrant families or second third generation just just who've been here forever? To what extent do you think that self help belief comes when there's no other alternative? You have to make it happen as your parents had to To what extent do you think that that can can help people be better with money?

19:57
I think it's important, I

19:58
think you have to take you With responsibility for your, your for yourself and your finances, I know my parents, I mean, I don't really. So I was felt like for them debt was taboo. So they'd rather, you know, make do with what they got, even if it's not quite enough, it wasn't about keeping up with the Joneses, etc. It's about doing what's right for you. So. And I think that's just really important to understand that, you know, you shouldn't chase someone else's dream. And that's, that sounds like a bit of a cliche, but you know, what's rich to you isn't necessarily going to be rich to me. So it's understanding what's rich, deep, but I say rich and use the word quite freely nowadays. But, you know, it's if you're, if you can make yourself in a comfortable position, and you're happy, then that's a good place to be. But if you're trying is up, or you know, I could have, let's just say, I can afford this house. It's nice, but I want a bigger house because it looks better. And so I'm going to struggle having that bigger house, and you have to ask yourself if it's really worth it. I don't know if that makes much sense. But yeah, I think it's, you know, being in control of your money. And taking responsibility for your money is vital. And I think that's something that my parents did really well. And that's something I think I do quite well as well. Yeah, you should be able to Wi Fi.

21:17
So tell me about the your your foray into working, right, because that when you first start working for money, that's kind of a wake up call, because previous Previous to that mum and dad have been kind of helping out and paying the bills and giving you a bit pocket money or little gifts and stuff. So So what did you learn about yourself when you first started working in the shoe shop, as glamorous as it was?

21:37
It wasn't very glamorous.

21:41
It was I kind of liked it. I just felt like it was is nice to do. A lot of my friends were doing it as well. So it was just like, Oh, yeah, no, this is really cool. I've got a job. And it was only a little bit of money because I was only working one day a week. And you know, it was it was spending money. And I did you know it was it was spending money by I didn't really go to my mom and dad for spending money off. Did

22:05
you mean fun money? Yeah.

22:09
It was? Well, to be fair, I did actually save quite a lot of it, especially when I worked in like holidays and stuff. You know, summer holidays, etc. I would ask him like, Oh, can I do some shifts? Can I do some shifts, and I would really use that to boost some savings and get some bigger stuff. One, and that was actually I was paying for my own driving lessons. And I did end up saving for a small car, it was only a fiesta, which cost a few 100 pounds. But

22:36
because your parents wouldn't give you the money, or they suggested they'd help you if you saved or you just did because you wanted.

22:41
My dad helped me like not have insurance and stuff. But they didn't. I didn't get asked a cut. I was just very independent. I didn't really ask him for much after that. I was just like, No, you can't, you know, at least you can't deny it to me if I say it's my money. I'm getting it. So I guess I just didn't ask but you know, I've got two children on my own. And I probably give them too much. Which I shouldn't. But yeah, I think I just grew up to be quite independent from quite young age.

23:13
I'm gonna make your own and I no doubt you had quite a few pairs of shoes when you're working in that shoe shop because there was lots of offers. No, no. Checking, just checking.

23:21
It wasn't it was.

23:24
No more wasn't street cred. Yeah, I got it. So. Okay, so you went to uni, dad? How did you navigate uni? Because obviously, for many people, my daughter has only recently graduated this year. And she just said some of her friends would sort of say, look at the bank account. It's an ugly mess. And I say I don't know where all that money's gone. And other people like her. She She always spent within a budget, as you'd expect. And she came back, you know, no debt at all. So what is it the difference? How did you navigate that union? What did you learn about people and money?

23:54
To be honest now, right? So I didn't have I went to university at a time where there wasn't any cost symbol, there's no tuition fees, etc. So, you know, I didn't have to worry about that. And I did actually stay at home while I was at university, because I went to London University, and I was able to travel obviously, occasion headlights way excetera. So I actually did quite well, and just, you know, it, I felt like I didn't struggle. So I was in a very quite unique and fortunate position, if I'm honest. And I do feel for students today. And obviously if I'd gone out of out of London, that would have been a totally different story. And it just didn't come up. Something I wanted to do. I don't know why but at the time, I didn't want to go any further. I guess maybe part of me like the security that I was getting by staying closer to my parents and in London. And so maybe I was just a bit too sensible. I don't know.

24:50
But you made a point there although obviously the funding situation was different when you're around and you'd have to pay fees but but it is still possible to get through university or college or or higher. Education without coming out with enormous amounts of liabilities and stuff. I mean, I'm not talking here about the tuition fees. But that's one side. Think of that as a graduate tax, but he's not, you don't have to incur lots of living costs, because you have to go to a university that you can afford, right? That's, that's gonna work for you. So it is possible to come out without overdrafts and debts and loans, and God knows what. So, yeah, so take us back after uni, then. So did you go straight into the workplace? Or did you just have some chill out time and travel the world? or What did you do?

25:28
Um, so when I finished university, I did go. After a few months, I had a few months to chill out time, but not much. And quite frankly, I just got bored. And I went to work straight into work, and study that publication at the Financial Times, writing about pensions and investments. So that was quite excited to hang on

25:51
a minute. Hang on, sorry to drop. Did you choose that? Or did he choose you? Did you just happen to get that as a journalism job? Or did you always want to write about money? No,

25:59
I always wanted to be a journalist, I did not always want to write about money.

26:03
Okay.

26:05
But it came up. I really like that. So that was my first proper jobs. And just literally, for few months, I did actually work at a pensions company, but I don't talk about it much because it was literally pulled back from the months of not doing that. And, but that was just kind of me killing a bit of time. And, and then obviously, quite naturally fell into working into pinches publication, which was actually really exciting. But I did that for two years. But then I did go traveling for a few months, took a sabbatical went traveling, because I realized I haven't done enough exciting things.

26:37
Okay, hang on. That's a good point. Let me just step on that. So you didn't have a big sort of chill out session between union job you went into the journalism role happened to sort of learn about pensions and stuff. And then you just thought, hang on a minute, two years in, I need to have a bit of fun, right? Yeah. But that's a good point for people to remember, at any stage in your life, it's okay to step off the carousel, isn't it? It's okay to say, you know what, I need to stop this and do something different. It's not always easy when you've got kids and liabilities. But so that was really good. So what did you do then you What did you do? Did you go and live abroad or just to the UK on

27:11
a backpacking went Asia and Southeast Asia, China, in Thailand, etc. So it was really the way we were friends, that was really exciting. But what, in a way, you know, you made the point about, you know, you can stop at any time and have fun, do what you need to do. But for me, that was the right time to do it. Because I saved some money. I felt comfortable. I felt like I you know, sort of kickstart my career. And I just felt like I was going in, in my mind, I just felt quite secure. And as you put them for me, you know, like security. And so that was the right time for me to go in. Because I had a sabbatical one years coming back to a job, and I was just a lot more comfortable when I was out there traveling.

27:54
So you had your job to come back to they let you go?

27:57
Yeah, they were very nice. Let me have a sabbatical. So yes, I actually literally come back. After six. I've been traveling for six months, and went back into the job after about eight months. But that's

28:09
a great, that's a great idea there because because Hang on, if you're listening to this podcast, what's to stop you going to your employer, I know everyone's situation is difficult, and different. And COVID may be different. But what's to stop anyone going to their employer, or even their business and saying, You know what, I just want to take a three month sabbatical sabbatical might help the business out. It might help you obviously got to have the savings. But but that's a great point. Kalpana it's a really good point. So I think more people can actually could follow that lead of yours. Yeah, carry on. Sorry. And you're

28:39
right, at any time. And, you know, your employer can only just say no, and you might decide that she will you know, when you come back, you might not even want to go back to that job. Yeah. And so yes, I felt quite confident asking because I've kind of proved myself for two years and say, Look, I really love this job. I really want to come back to it. And I want to do this and it's important to me. And, and so yeah, that Yeah, and I think everyone should do that if they can if they want to.

29:05
And what did the impact did that have on you and your outlook on life and the role of money when you came back from that six, seven months of being in Asia because it's a fantastic cultures out there. And these 1000s of years of history, unusual everything from rich to poor to vibrancy, to you know, everything. So what What impact did that have on your your view of the future when you came back? Oh,

29:29
so well, futures, I just want to go back. But it is the best, I'd say it's the best thing I did. And I would say you know, if you know, always say that being good with money is it's not about not doing what you think is important in life to you. So, for me, that was a goal that I had in mind and I use the money that I saved and use that to do what I want to do. And I think that in a way, it's kind of taught me that you know, I try and see the bigger picture. If you see what I mean, I want you to dial up and something that will really matter. So if there's something that really matters to me, you know, that's where my savings are going

30:09
to be in yourself, didn't you? you invested in experiences in becoming a more rounded individual to having a bigger picture perspective? Yeah, yeah,

30:16
exactly. And, but, you know, at the same time, I'm always a little bit sensible. So I actually did also invest some money before I went, so no, there's no way I'm coming back broke, because I do that per week expense on that younger age where it's not nice when there isn't enough money, which is still invested today. So you know, kind of, in a way, it taught me to spend, save, you know, it's good to have that balance, and try and carry that through. throughout life. Obviously, things happen in life. And not everyone can do that. I understand that. But I just think, you know, if that's how you can think of your income splitting in various directions, everyone could put themselves in quite a good position and still enjoy life. Because I always think having money is about enjoying life, and getting things that you want. And so it's really just realizing what's important to you.

31:03
So you came back from you resumed your career? And did you have a master plan with a career? Or did you just think you take every week and month as it was? And just keep moving forward? Or? Or was there a kind of big master plan that you want it to be a certain position at a certain time? or, or, or did you just feel it, feel your way and take one step after the other

31:23
kind of a bit of both. And so I've been quite career orientated like that, you know, career minded. And, and I always believe in having a strong career, which is why it was important for me to make sure I come back to something that I enjoy. So I actually did that for a while, and kind of, I suppose I just kind of carried on doing it, because I've had that break. And, you know, taking a break, Philip was just kind of picking up and doing more. So, you know, I carried on doing that. And then I freelance for a little while, for a few years, actually. And while a freelancer also had two children. So that's kind of kept me busy. But, you know, I, I did some freelancing, I suppose it was, I think it was when I freelance that really opened up my mind about what I wanted to do. Know, I started a blog at the time, I did a lot of TV radio stuff. And I'm quite ambitious, but I kind of keep it to myself in the sense that in my head, you know, what I want to do, and I always have my eye on, you know, opportunities open for opportunities a lot, you know, that's just something that I always did. So yeah, I guess it's just, I wasn't, I didn't have like a little chart saying, Oh, this is where I'm, at this time of the year, you know, like this 2025, I must be doing this. I don't have that. But I just do keep an eye on opportunities. And if, if it's something that's right for me, you know, I'll pursue it

32:43
sounds like you were making progress. But you didn't have to you were head of general direction, but you didn't get hung up. So the takeaway I'm taking from that is, you don't have to have it all mapped out. It doesn't have to be a master plan doesn't have to be specific goals small and all that rubbish. It has to be you have to be moving forward, right and enjoying life. So you just mentioned something really insignificant as we're walking there. Oh, and I had two children. Now, let's just get I've got two kids. You just had I had two children, like it was I bought a pair of shoes. I mean, you were building a career. You were building your financial base, you were learning about life? And then you had two kids? How did you navigate? Because a lot of I've got a lot of female listeners and, you know, and male listeners who are obviously also trying to adapt to the new world we're in? And how did you navigate that change? Because that's a big change to both your ability to work and the demands on your time and the additional expense. So how did you navigate there? What did you learn about becoming a parent in terms of your finances?

33:39
And I have to say, when I it was more for me, it wasn't so much about the finances, I hadn't actually given that fault, which sounds really bad as a financial journalist. But for me, it was about with I was mentally ready to be a parent. And when I was ready to be a parent, I kind of just took it as it like most parents do. And you know, and it was, you know, you I think the expenses, again, because I've always been quite sensible. I was I had that money to bank wasn't so much family fund, it was just a fun that I had, and I had that money to kind of fall back on sort of a reservoir. Yeah, and I'm glad I had it because actually, my first child wasn't very well. So I did actually take a bit of a break. And he was in that hospital quite a lot. And that is exactly the sort of thing, that sort of savings were there to support me so that I and before Yeah, and but then I did freelance after that. So I had a bit more flexibility. But for me, freelancing was probably one of the best things that I did in the sense that it allowed me to explore working for different publications, you know, for example, I know I've good housekeeping notes, something I did when I was freelancing as well and it's a contact I've never made. So yeah, I guess just like Every other parent, you just juggle it and do your best. And we're doing that right now. School now, but they're around a bit more than we're around them a bit more often because we're working from home. So I guess for me, it's just understanding that having those dependents now is again, just makes me realize that I have to spend it all on me, or, you know, I save it is, there is other things that we want to do, or the savings have to be a little bit bigger. And the emergency fund needs to be a little bit bigger, for example,

35:33
do you find that motivated you a bit more to earn a bit more to sort of go beyond your comfort zone? Because because there's two things there isn't there? They are dependent, but it's about making them meeting their basic needs emotionally and and in terms of survival needs? But there's also the issue for you, isn't there about potential costs further down the line with them? And and did that is that has that played any part in your thinking?

35:59
Yes. So you know, they both have, like, Junior ices and I now when I put money into my own investments, I put it into various investments as well. And but you know, I am very much a great believer in look after yourself first in the sense that, you know, I don't want to be a liability to them when I'm older. And so I've got to make sure that I'm financially comfortable. But you know, I was putting stuff away from them, because whether they decide to go to university or not, I don't know. But you know, there's a little fun bear for them that we try and give them a kickstart. So I'm quite cautious of that. But also like, teaching them about money, at the same time, quite cautious about that, as well. And it's challenging at times. And I say that that's because of technology and gaming, virtual money, there's so much more to tackle that I felt like as a kid I don't even worry about

36:54
and what do you What's your sort of top tips about helping children have a healthy relationship with money? And then the basics, what are you doing that's working for you.

37:02
So at the moment, they both get, I think, regular spending money. And as long as they know, it's regular, they know it's coming, and they can plan it a bit more. So the older one is 10. So he, he's a bit naughty, in the sense that, oh, I can spend all this money and I'm still quite good, I want you to save it. So I'm now trying to incentivize him by saying, if you save it all, add a bit of extra white in the bottom or something like that. And my younger one is probably takes a bit off to me that, you know, he he likes the idea of that money growing. And they both got their own sort of prepaid cards, which they use. didn't really go shopping with it, but they kind of got their own money,

37:44
debit cards or their own money.

37:48
It's this waste of money and go Henry.

37:51
Yeah.

37:51
Amen to that we

37:53
use a digital pocket, like a digital

37:57
card as well, which if they will happen to be at the shots, which they like the moment they tap them by selfie.

38:04
So do you think that's important to give them that level of agency or control kind of self determination, but with some caveats, and do you think that's important?

38:12
I think so. Because it, and I'm saying that from experience, because it works for me, because I didn't have my own prepaid cards, because they didn't exist when I was a child. But I did have my own sort of, it was a little passport, or whatever you called it. And you can see the digits growing so

38:28
that when you gave it in, and they put it in the machine, and he came back.

38:34
You know, and I like that. And I just felt that psychological feeling of watching your money grow. I think he's a great motivator to help you save because one thing I really want my children to have is the habit of saving before they get into learning to go and it's a cardio I can spend on it. And it's so easy. I don't want them that happy. I want them to kind of get that balance that I've achieved in life. And

38:58
yeah, children learn from example, don't they rather than just what you say? It's also what you do if you are splurging or money over the place and you don't need to sit down or you don't talk about it. Yeah, absolutely. So healthy money, conversations, habits, and and giving them some direction. I'm just interested. And if I can touch on this as I've it's not too sensitive. But obviously, I've been out to India a couple of times, doing speed speaking engagements, and I love the whole the whole vibe in India, there's so much opportunity. I know there's lots of poverty and there's lots of inequality. But it is still a very patriarchal size society, isn't it? And, and I'm just interested, you are super, you are a super How can I put it dynamic and entrepreneurial? And so self starting Indian British Indian woman, a British person with Indian heritage? Is that because your dad was very, very enlightened and really encouraged you and your mum is a role model that you follow? Or is it just you immerse back from the culture that you've lived in in the UK and you've been hanging around people who are very strong willed and gender doesn't matter because I'm interested in That, that aspect both of being a mom, a woman, and some of Indian heritage where perhaps that culture in the past perhaps has been more kind of women have a different role.

40:13
Yes. So little bit of mix of that, really, my parents are quite liberal. And so I think, Oh, no, it's not my mom. I mean, I remember her saying to me that it was important to get an education. And she said, and you don't just have a job, you have a career. And she, I guess, that she put doubt in my mind. And then my dad was always about, you know, do well. And when he say, Well, you know, get what you want to call whatever, get it under story. So, however, there's some people that I speak to even today I remember speaking, speaking to my auntie, one, so she said, Oh, I was always told that education wasn't important that I had to learn to cook. And that was more important. And I was not brought up in that way. So I'm glad I wasn't brought up in that way. I think my parents have just been quite liberal. And I'm glad, I'm glad they understood the importance of good education, growing up to be an independent woman. So I think I definitely got that from my mom, because she, she worked. She She wasn't, you know, a stay at home mom or anything like that. And I think watching her go to work kind of made me think women and money and you know, they don't stay at home and complain, etc.

41:36
However, just to be clear, stay at home mums, that's still a full time job. And it is an economic benefit. So if someone else can go or stay at home dad, or stay home, dad, yeah,

41:44
exactly.

I mean, that's equally important. But I just felt like, from, for me, as a child, just watching my mum put those messages into me to say, be independent, that I think independence is the word I'm looking for was quite

41:59
important.

42:01
What we say in our family as a man is not a plan. I keep saying to my daughters, a man is not a plan. And they laugh all the time. Like, yeah, absolutely. It doesn't mean say you don't have a man in your life. But just on your own terms. Yeah. So okay, that's interesting. Look, we could talk all day. And it's been fascinating, some really great insights there about being you know, starting out in life and taking your time off and bringing up children and teaching them money values. That's great. Before we wrap up, I just wondered if you want to just give us a kind of your greatest hits sort of wisdom, what you've learned about money that you want to just share with people that you think everyone should know when they're 18 1920?

42:38
Yeah, I would say one of my top tips is, payday isn't Yeah, ad spend a lot on

42:50
a day.

42:53
To day, you know that, to me the messages spend? No, I think once you get paid and dedicate an X amount of savings, and do that as a direct debit, and stop thinking about it. And if you're working, sign up to your employees Pension Fund, which you should be in automatically anyway. But if you've opted out, OPT back in and forget about it, because especially if you're in your 20s or something, it's the best time to start saving for pension, which sounds like I know such a long time away. But if you start now, you're going to be in a good position, your 40s or 50s.

43:27
Yeah, good, let's say interesting. So if people want to check out and follow you, you got a you do a blog, don't you? And you're on Instagram, just give us those handles so people know where to find you.

43:36
So my Twitter is at Calvin ofits. And Instagram is at calcular. Fitzpatrick, and my blog is currently offline. Okay. rematches.com

43:48
Yeah. Okay, we'll get that. I'm sure. That'll be back online when this episode goes out. Good. Carpenter, it's been great talking to you. You're a lovely person. And I really appreciate your honesty and openness. And I hope we can have you back on the show. In the future. We'll find out what you're up to and what you're doing. But it's been great talking to you today. Thanks for your time.

44:04
Thank you.

44:09
She was an interesting lady. Wasn't she Kalpana? very open, very straightforward, very practical, really enjoyed speaking to her very short interview there. And there's quite a lot of wisdom. When you think about that early childhood experience with him her father was being burgled or robbed or whatever you call it in the shop that he was running. And that was a really traumatic thing to go through. And I think that did forge thinking in Kalpana is mind that she had to really sort of money was precious, and she had to treat it with respect. So think about your own childhood experiences and how they've shaped your thoughts and beliefs about money because they can be positive or negative. And she was really, really focused on being financially independent, wasn't she and taking responsibility. And that was really nice to see. I love that line when she said, Don't chase someone else's dream. We're all guilty at some stage or getting sucked into other people's priorities or agenda. Net can have some really bad implications for our own spending and our financial well being. So it's really important worth mentioning. And of course, the idea of, she went to university in London where her parents lived, and she lived at home. So although she didn't have student financing, like we have now, she managed to avoid overdrafts and debts by having a low cost of university education by just keeping it really simple and not living away. That may not suit everyone, but she certainly came out in financial good shape. So that's a good lesson for everyone. And I love the idea of the sabbatical. She just she'd been working for a couple of years. And then she thought, No, I'm going to take six months off, go and travel the world and go to East Asia and etc. And she really enjoyed that. So think to yourself, could you take a sabbatical? It's hard when you've got kids and other commitments. So if you're younger, perhaps it's now is the time to be thinking about as we open up from COVID should you be taking a sabbatical? And the idea that being a freelancer, although for some people is precarious and a little bit sort of lacks security for her it gives her Kalpana gives her the flexibility she needs to be a busy mom and to be a career lady. And I love that idea when she said paydays and automate everything. Make sure you're in a workplace pension if it's all on offer, and take the free money. So good. Good interview, check her out. She's a nice lady. She writes a lot. She wants people like Mary Claire and good housekeeping. So good, good person. So really enjoy speaking. But that's it. It's another episode finished. I'll see you again next week. Thanks for joining.

Thanks for listening to real money stories with me, Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai