77. Nikki Ramskill Takes The Money Medicine

This week, I talk to NHS doctor Nikki Ramskill who, having seen firsthand how money stress affects the health and wellbeing of her patients and colleagues, is also a money coach.

Nikki candidly shares her early relationship with her finances which, largely influenced by her money personality, was full of impulse spending, accumulating debt and never saying ‘no’.

Now Nikki is helping women build abundance into their lives by providing financial literacy and gradually breaking down the taboo around talking about money.

You can find out more about Nikki’s money coaching here.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the real money stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invest in. Hello, thanks for joining me on another edition of Romani stories. Got a great interview this week, we have a wonderful lady, Dr. Nikki RAMs, Gill, who actually is a part time GP and a part time money coach, and she's got a wonderful backstory and some great insights, which I'm sure you're gonna love. But before we get into that, a couple of things. So you what I've been up to, and some material that might help you. This week's Instagram Live was all about money mindset. Because money mindset is one of those really fascinating aspects of how you handle your money, which I've done a lot of research for my forthcoming book was coming out the money miracles coming out this summer. So I thought I'd do a half hour live on the key issues that relate to money mindset. So check that out on Instagram, and it will also be on my YouTube channel in a few weeks time. On the YouTube channel, the latest episode that I put out their latest video is a book review, where I give you my sort of top three for financial independence. So check that one out. And there are other videos on there as well. If you haven't already subscribed, it's Jason Butler financial wellbeing. subscribe, hit the bell, and you'll always get to know about new material. And we're putting out new material on the YouTube channel every week to help you and the people you care about. Master your money. Yeah, interesting question here from one of my listeners and readers. And I thought I'd just share it with you because I think it's something which is a lot more common than we realize. This is the situation. So this is from Wendy, Wendy is trying to buy a house. And the lady she has negotiated the purchase with is all happy to proceed. The problem is that the lady owns the house that she's selling with her ex partner now that she wasn't married to this chap. But she has got a couple of kids with him a school aged children. And he's being belligerent, and he won't really move forward with the cell coming out of all sorts of excuses and says he's got nowhere to go. And the property prices have gone up since then, and etc, etc. So, you know, I got thinking and you know, she asked me, she says what was the situation? Well, it obviously really does depend on where you are in the country. But the broad terms in the UK, if you aren't married, you don't have any real sort of rights as such, but what you do have if you own a property jointly, and there are two ways of owning a property, it can be tenancy in common, which means that you may only equally or you might have a different share 7030, but you each Own your share separately, or you could be joint tenants, which means that you, you own it equally and completely the two of you. So if one of you were to die, the other one would receive the share by survivorship. And you have to jointly. But in either case, if you own a property with an ex partner, and you're not married to them, then you can go to the court and basically compel them to sell now either they can sell their share to you, or you could sell your share to them and they could release you from that.

Or you could just sell it on the open market as Wendy is trying to do to purchase it from them. But basically one of the simplest ways I spoke to one of my lawyer friends and said one of the first steps you should do is if you've got a belligerent partner like this, who won't move won't concede to the sale is to get a solicitor to send what action before sorry, a letter before action. So what this is, is really giving him notice that if he doesn't play ball, you're going to go legal. So that might cost you two or 300 pounds to get a formal letter sent from a solicitor to him setting out the situation what's going to happen if he doesn't play ball. But you've got to be prepared to spend, you know, a couple of 1000 quid in legal fees to get him or her out of the property. So really, it all boils down to the messaging here is if you are if you've got another party, you know ex partner in the property or who won't concede to sell. What you've really got to get across to them in that pre action letter is that this is going to be sold this property. The question is is how long it's going to take and how much in legal fees. We are going to incur together, as I take you through the court system to make it happen, and the courts will make an order to sell a property, eventually, it may take months, it may cost some 1000 few 1000 quid, but it will happen. So once he realizes that he or she, if it's a lady who's living there, once the other party realizes that the game is up, it's going to happen, they're going to have to start being less emotional about it and more logical and rational. So I thought it was an interesting one. So if you've got someone in a property that you own, jointly, however, it's slightly different if there are children involved, because the court will take some different considerations. But this the outcome is the same that the property will eventually be sold. It's just going to take time and cost legal fees. So an interesting one that one thought that I'd share that with you. Right, that's me done. So let's get on to this week's interview. Dr. Nikki ram skill, a lovely lady who's a hospital doctor, turn GP turned money, coach, wonderful story. wonderful lady. Have you enjoyed. Hello, and thanks for joining me on another edition of real money stories. I'm your host, Jason Butler. And this week, I'm joined by a mini superstar when I say many superstars because you if you haven't heard of you will in the future, I can promise you. She is an absolute brilliant public speaker, if you ever get a chance to hear her speak live, a really honest, wonderful story, which is why I wanted to get her on the show. This lady oozes humility. She's got wisdom abound. She's super smart. And also, she does a really important job during the day, which is as a GP, which we all love health workers at the moment, don't we if we didn't before? So, Dr. Nikki rapidscale Hello.

Unknown Speaker 6:46
Hi, I'm blushing.

Jason Butler 6:49
All right. We only have people on the show that we love. Nikki. Generally, when I heard your story, originally, I thought, I've got to get this skill, this lady on the show. So you know what this podcast is all about just really breaking the taboo of money, sort of taking the power away from it. And just seeing if what it is right and having a healthy relationship with it. So it's true, isn't it? You're a GP by the day. So you just want to tell people what you do for your day job. And what you do is your side job.

Unknown Speaker 7:17
Yeah, so it doesn't immediately spring to mind is the most natural progression. But hopefully, when I explain it, it will make sense. So I've been adopted now since 2009, and was initially a hospital doctor and then transitioned into GP medicine because I quite like the the community side of things. And in that transition period, I had a bit of an epiphany around my own money problems. And through that, I realized that my patients had the same sorts of issues. And that was what was actually leading a lot of them to have ongoing health concerns, or their health problem was causing money issues, because they weren't set up properly in the first place. So then I started writing about my experiences and the experiences of seeing my patients. And that was through my blog, the female money doctor, and that's I've now transitioned into becoming a money coach, which is my side job, which hopefully one day will be my full job because I can see the real health benefits that managing money well actually impacts on people.

Jason Butler 8:22
Yeah, absolutely. And I love that. That focus that you have on the you talk about the whole the whole person and now avoids what is the cause? And what's the effect and sometimes the cause is money problems leads to health, physical mental, doesn't it You said, but also mental health problems, addictions, hormonal imbalances, other traumas that are happening can lead to bad money decisions got nice. So we can't judge people. We are where we are. And it can happen to anyone. Good. So look, take us back. Nicky, take us back a little bit to the beginning. I mean, like the early experiences of money and what it was like growing up, and then you can tell us about some of the the highs and lows that you had?

Unknown Speaker 9:00
Yeah, um, I think like a lot of people I didn't really get any proper education about money at all. And I remember my mom saying to me, don't get into debt and save money, which sounds on the surface, like really good advice, because it is, but it never went any deeper than that. It wasn't how you not you stop yourself getting into debt or how you get yourself into savings, money well all the time. And she showed me her book with all our transactions, and she'd write everything down every day and track well how much money she would be spending. And I used to think that was just really boring and yet so I didn't listen to my mom. And I did the complete opposite. And basically spent all the money spent even more money because I had lots of debt as well and never bothered tracking anything. So my early life around money was very chaotic. I

Jason Butler 9:56
would say let's just step before let you escape from the childhood years because There's always something to learn from this do you think that was part rebellion? right because you're a teenage all those teenagers think we know it all now people haven't got a clue. Right? Okay, that's that's just how it is? Or was it the you your your personality was such that you would rebel against that kind of structure, even though your scientific and scientific background but you would rebel against that? Or was it just just you fell in with the wrong influences and messages around you marketing? And perhaps or perhaps you just felt it was great, nice feeling spending money? What What was it? What did you learn about yourself when you were a teenager?

Unknown Speaker 10:33
Yeah, so for me, it was a it was a mix of the first two, it was the the personality type that I've got. And I actually do work with people around money personality, because it's so important. So I now know that my money personality lends itself to someone that impulse buys and spends without thinking. But I also know that I was rebelling a lot in my teenage years, you know, I didn't want to do what my parents do. Because in my mind, it was boring. To do anything. I wanted to explore everything go out, say yes to everything, travel, all that stuff. So yeah, the two I would say,

Jason Butler 11:11
yeah. And I think that's really great. Thank you for sharing that. Because you know, when we talk about all of us, all of us have dysfunctional upbringings. And all of us have dysfunctional families, even if they're lovely, and even if we don't think they are, so let's just get that one or not. I've never met a perfect family, whatever that is. So that's interesting. So this thing about money types. This fascinating, you know, you're in your coaching, we can come back to that in a minute. But just because you have a predisposition to a certain type of behavior, or thought pattern or belief system doesn't mean you're stuck with it forever, does it?

Unknown Speaker 11:43
No, of course not. And the nice thing about understanding your personality is that there are two sides to every coin. So you know, if you spend most of your time in the the more negative aspects of your personality, of course, you're going to store up problems for yourself, but you can actually use those same traits, and flip them on the head and actually use them to your advantage.

Jason Butler 12:01
Yeah, absolutely. And I think the other thing is, is thinking about what did we learn from those early childhood years? Because you then went on to you went on to university, didn't you?

Unknown Speaker 12:12
Yeah, yeah. And only got worse at university. So essentially, I remember when I got my first student account, walked into HSBC, and the lady was very nice. And she set me up with a student account with a 2000 pounds overdraft and a credit card shuttle, you might as well get the credit card, it's comes with your account, you know, no education about it was just very flippant. Yeah, you might as well get it. And so I did. And because of that nature of wanting to do everything, and be involved with everything, and not say no to anything, and that meant that personality type that Maverick personality type, that means that I want to spend money on everything. Having extra money was a great thing to an 18 year old that doesn't know how to manage money. So I used that extra money I was given and never paid it back. Because as a student, I didn't have the money to pay it back. So then that then became, okay, well, well, I've just had this thing about all this transfer onto another credit card with a slightly, you know, oh, that give me a little bit more money this time, because I'm so responsible with my money, I pay my bill every month. So then that gets transferred onto a bigger balance, and then you don't pay that back. And then that becomes a bigger balance, then you get charged again. And eventually it just snowballs out of control because I then start earning money. And then when you earn money, you can pay bigger amounts of money every month off of your credit card, which means I don't ever have to pay it off because I can afford to pay it off. It's fine.

Jason Butler 13:46
So let's just let's just stop there a minute. Your personality type was if there is no constraints, and if there's no structure, and if someone gives you money you don't have and says go and have fun below Supermarket Sweep. What what happens there is that petrol on flames, right? It was a small fire. Oh, it's a bonfire. Right? Is that is that essentially what's happened? So you then normalized it as you went to uni, you kind of justified it. You went into uni, and you came out with obviously university tuition costs Did you in debts and stuff, that sort of stuff. And then you went into the workplace. And so therefore earning money just meant you then started feeling more debt or more payments or more facilities? And so how do they How did it? How did you take a big step back? Because you went from relatively modest amount of debt to quite a large amount, didn't you in a short space of time? Tell us more about that? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker 14:35
So when I kind of had a few years of traveling, doing things I wanted to do so that obviously when you're paying more than 1000 pounds extra every month on your two at once your credit card because you are in London and you want to go out all the time.

Jason Butler 14:51
So you're spending 1000 pounds more than you're earning and that was going on a card or it's been so

Unknown Speaker 14:59
yep, okay.

Jason Butler 15:00
Right. Okay, no judging, I'm just I'm just trying to understand so you're very young you're 2122 23 I suppose it was holidays in that was their trips and friends were having dues and stuff.

Unknown Speaker 15:08
Yeah. Yeah, this was this was probably around because medical school you finish at the age of around 2425. And so then when I came out, I went into my first job. And I was in quite a controlling relationship. I was in a relationship where the the guy who was weird was the one that had the purse strings, he was in control of everything. So when we broke up, it was like, it was like another element of freedom. So he wasn't allowing me to spend my money in the way that I wanted to spend it. So the overdraft was being hammered. Credit cards are being hammered, so that I could have the kinds of life that I wanted without his permission.

Jason Butler 15:45
Alright, so let's take a step back, though, if we can just touch on it, because I think it will be really useful for everyone and only share whatever you want to share. But But how did you slip into you meet someone you think they're lovely, you fancy them? You think they're good? Fun, you think? Well, it could be something here? How does it go from that dating someone to then controlling the finances? Or is it a case of you willing participant is someone here is the white knight is going to take over all the problems? Please, please deal with it?

Unknown Speaker 16:15
Yeah, it was, I suppose probably a bit of both. I had no interest whatsoever in learning how to manage my finances. Just I just didn't have an interest in it again, it was it was boring. It was, Why do I have to worry about this? So when he said, Oh, well, I'll deal with that. And it will be fine. He wasn't great with money either. He also got himself into quite a bit of debt, but I have no clue what he was doing with my money, basically. And, you know, I trust the fact that he was using it responsibly. And he was doing what he needed to do to pay off our bills and things. But I was when you're given like an allowance for somebody that's just had their first paycheck, as you know, after years and years and years of being a student, it just felt so controlling, even though it probably wasn't to him, it was just him taking responsibility. For me it was I was controlled, I didn't like it. So therefore would rebel against that and spend on other things that I could have access to.

Jason Butler 17:14
So let's just summarize that for people listening. So we're clear because this is this is not uncommon, that you're a willing participant in finding someone to offload this stuff, this thinking about money, right? Because it didn't suit you, personality wise, so fine. He was a willing participant in taking over that even if he was not competent to do it, he took over that he then developed into a situation where he started his way of dealing with it was to make it overly controlling, which is going to make you even feel even worse, because you're naturally a free spirit, etc, you know, and then you started developing those side pockets of resources, in other words, debt and facilities that enabled you to then be the butterfly or whatever it is, you want to be with the spending, right. So this is all becoming so therefore, then the whole relationship becomes essentially interwoven with this dysfunctional kind of way of dealing with day to day spending. Is that essentially what it is?

Unknown Speaker 18:04
Yeah, essentially, and he had no idea the extent of it. And the day that I had to actually admit that to him was, it was horrible. I still remember it. Now. He, he just was so shocked. He had no idea that I've been building up this this debt in the behind the scenes,

Jason Butler 18:21
and PVC is like financial, if I can use this term, please don't get offended financial infidelity. Did he sort of feel that was there because you almost like done this behind? Without telling him?

Unknown Speaker 18:32
Maybe he wouldn't have used those words. But perhaps Yeah, I mean, it is a kind of infidelity, isn't it? It's, you know, I had been doing what I wanted to do behind the scenes irresponsibly, perhaps if that's the right word to use, because I hadn't listened to the budget.

Jason Butler 18:48
Well, the budget sounds to me like it was a big hammer and a big strength jacket for you. So you're never going to get involved with that. Where are you that was never going to happen. But equally, he probably had the right intentions. But it's just the wrong approach. So what would go well intentioned? So do you think then, when your relationship came to a head? Was it the money that caused the end of the relationship? Or was that just the straw that broke the camel's back? Because one can lead to another, can't it?

Unknown Speaker 19:10
Yeah, I think, for me, it was it was just the lack of control of my own life. I just couldn't I couldn't do any more money was part and parcel of that it was the I didn't have the full say so in what my money did. And it wasn't the only thing. But it was part and parcel of it. So yeah, absolutely. And then it meant I had more freedom once I've left.

Jason Butler 19:32
So when when you've got to that situation of having to end the relationship, was that just one of a series of steps that you then had to take? And if you can just share with us? How did you go from this kind of fessing up bit to realizing it was to actually then starting to put a road to recovery? If I can use those terms to nothing's perfect, or you're all finished now, but I mean, just saying, what did you do tell me through take us through the steps of what you did and how you learn and how you reacted and how you felt of going from that. About we're not going to stay together. I need to get some control in my life. And I'm going to get on top of this money thing. So tell us take us through that journey.

Unknown Speaker 20:10
Yeah. Okay. So by this point, I was in hospital medicine and becoming very, very stressed with hospital medicine. And this has nothing to do with the relationship.

Jason Butler 20:21
job right, isn't it? Yeah. high

Unknown Speaker 20:23
stress job is obstetrics and gynecology. So Adam, Adam, Kay, you know, his book, this is going to hurt. Yeah, yeah. And he, he's like the male version of what my life was, like, basically, very

Jason Butler 20:36
structured. You could relate to that that

Unknown Speaker 20:41
book was was very resonated a lot with me. And so I was given some time off, because I just felt like I couldn't cope at that pace anymore. And during that, that year out, I filled more money on my debt pile. Why decided to go travelling, probably five months of traveling. And it was money that I'd saved. But really, I didn't, it wasn't really money that I had to go traveling with it was money that would have paid for other things would have paid off debts that I've been ignoring. But I chose to travel with the instant. So when I was away, that was the point where I looked at my money because I had time at this point. I had suddenly I had all this spare time I

Jason Butler 21:21
could read and think

Unknown Speaker 21:24
was on that rat race treadmill thing anymore. And that's when it hit me. And I saw the amount of debt I had and how much money was coming out. And I panicked. I could, you know, there were there was definitely a moment on that trip, where the bottom fell out of my stomach. I just felt really awful. Yeah. And I mean, don't get me wrong, I love the trip. It was amazing. And I carried on and I thought, things. I just thought, Well, you know what, I'm here. Now, let's just make the most of it. And then I'll deal with it when I go home. And while I was away, I started reading books. So started reading personal finance books, Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and all these sort of classics that we hear about now. And when I got home, I was determined I was going to be much better than money.

Jason Butler 22:08
So So this was the Epiphany on the trip where it was one last hurrah, okay, you didn't really have the money, but you kind of had a little bit of savings. You thought I've got to go and reset. That was the epiphany that was was that you're never again moment.

Unknown Speaker 22:22
Yes, absolutely.

Jason Butler 22:24
Yeah. So So you had this resolved, but we know that motivation and self discipline are fickle friends, most people and certainly for characters body like you and me are quite impulsive. So how did you when you came back, take us through them what happened and what your plan of action was?

Unknown Speaker 22:42
Okay, so I'm going to tell you about one other money mistakes that I made, which I think can happen if you're in a desperate situation, and you want to make changes. So when I came home, I got involved in a property investing course. That was way above where I should have been focusing, I should have been focusing on my day to day budget. actually controlling the basics Exactly. And I got swept up in the emotion because they played on the argument get out that debt really easily just one property deal and you'll be out of debt. And when it plays on that, you know, it's a bit like the Bitcoin thing that's going on right now put money in Bitcoin.

Jason Butler 23:25
Who cares? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker 23:26
exactly. And I literally came away from that year with more debt because I paid for the course and still nowhere near actually having a property deal under my belt. So

Jason Butler 23:39
now I know that now let's just stop there a minute right? This is a brilliant brilliant point. That my very good friend Katherine Morgan, Jr. is a money coach fantastic lady. Check her out. She's really good. She makes this point and and i agree with her that before we worry about investing in courses and this and that we first of all got to check in with the emotions and what is driving motivation to do or not do stuff when it comes to money. And it sounds to me like you absolutely are embodying in that particular story of paying for the property costs and he may have been a great course and it may have been a great we're getting head but you didn't have the foundation's right. And you hadn't got in really dealt with resolve those issues about how you related to money so carry on. So what then what happened after that disaster is kind of relaunched. It didn't relaunch.

Unknown Speaker 24:25
Well, how about this point, I'd already done a lot of education around finances, and I just thought I just went Okay, enough, enough, I'm doing no more. I am going to go back to basics. And I'm going to do what everybody is saying and get get the debt sorted out. And literally started the snowball method. That was the first thing that I did when it comes to pay off my debt. And, and I know that that people would say, Oh, that's not the right way to do it, because you're not paying off the highest interest debt first. But psychologically, I needed those wins. So I've got the small things done, and then I focused on the bigger debts and five years later completely debt free.

Jason Butler 25:04
Just before we move on, for anyone who doesn't know the snowball method is you line up your debts smallest to largest you hammer everything you possibly can into the smallest step minimum onto everything else. And then when you finish that smallest debt, you divert that money into the next smallest debt, and you hammer it. And it's been proven, I've written about it in the money miracle, which my book coming out later the year, that basically there have been four studies that have shown that is the single most effective means of getting rid of non mortgage debt, because it does three things. It provides momentum, confidence, and a sense of immediate results psychologically. So again, if it was logic logic, you pay off the one with the highest interest, but logic. Did you know we were following logic, we will never do it in the first place. So we know it's emotional things a behavioral thing. So absolutely. It just wanted to make that point. So what we'll do after that it's been proven on studies after study on that one. So you did. You did the budget. They already said to me about that. I don't like the word budget, because it's kind of like a bit of a, as you say, boring. So I think your mom and dad do or an accountant. So So how did you address what I call the smart spending, the intentional spending, the deliberate spending, how did you deal with that? as well as the snowball?

Unknown Speaker 26:11
Yeah. So the wait for me the way that works is to compartmentalize my money. So I literally put it into buckets, if you like or slices of pie, or however you want to. Yeah, exactly. I mean, this was before monzo installing were thing. And so I has multiple different free NatWest accounts open. And each of those accounts were called something different. So at the beginning, I get paid up, keep one for my bills, and then I've put fun money in one, I'd put my savings and another and I put my stuff to pay off debt emergency fund, whatever in the other fund.

Jason Butler 26:47
So you're, you're labeling them labeling? Great,

Unknown Speaker 26:51
yeah, jars, wallets, envelopes out, you know, whatever. You want to do it like that, for me. And that's how I still do it now. Although I've now replaced my fun NatWest account with my monzo. Because I love the the individual different. St. Same process, it's just slightly different. So yeah, and that's it, I have to do it that way. Otherwise, I will spend the money that I shouldn't be spending. Yeah,

Jason Butler 27:15
it's what we if you've ever seen my smart spending system, Nicky, which is what I developed, how it got me out of debt, my 20s. And it is it's basically compartmentalizing. So what you are, you are compartmentalizing the money. And mentally you are labeling it for what his intention is. So that you kind of know you. And you're avoiding it being mingled by having those separate accounts. So regardless of if you use apps, spreadsheets, whatever you use, you've you've proven you are living proof of those two particular things smart spending, by segmentation your money into different parts, and snowball method to get rid of that debt as quick as possible.

Unknown Speaker 27:46
So then what happened.

Unknown Speaker 27:48
So now I'm debt free. And that To be fair, wasn't only the Debt Snowball, they got to a point where I actually started earning less money because I went to my GP training. So I actually consolidated the remaining debt that I had, which was sensible for me, because I'd already made the mental shift of this is going this debt is going. And so I then started on that getting rid of that debt. And then unfortunately, my dad died just over a year ago now. And he he left me money unexpectedly, which I none of us in our family knew he was going to do. And that brought my debt freedom date forward by 18 months.

Jason Butler 28:30
So I want to make so you were already on the path to debt through your third loss of your father just accelerated it. And do you think that if you'd been in that bad place many years ago, when you were out of control the money and it was all it was controlling you? Do you think you'd have done the right thing with your dad's money? Or then or would it have just gone on consumption? Or? In other words, do you think yeah,

Unknown Speaker 28:52
it would, it would definitely have gone on consumption, there's no way I would have used that money for debt, or used it for something sensible.

Jason Butler 28:59
But what I'm interested to just really get across to people is that you had a windfall, a sad one or sad circumstance, but you've had the wind farms and expect you didn't you didn't treat yourself you thought, okay, I've got to accelerate the plan, and you became debt free 18 months earlier. So that's such a wonderful thing. How did you feel when you got that debt free situation to just tell us what change happened in you emotionally mentally,

Unknown Speaker 29:23
is to know what it takes a while for the emotional bit to actually catch up with you because I even now I still think I've got that, but I haven't it's it's it's, I can't even describe it. It's like an old thought processes still playing out even now and it makes me not want to spend money because I'm fearful of actually going back in that place again. And but I know that I will never go back to that place again. This you know, what's done is done in my mind. So now I focus on on building my future, which is about investing. So I'm now putting money towards my investments and looking to expand that as much as I can.

Jason Butler 30:01
So tell me about, you know, the three relationships you have now with you mentioned about fear, okay. And there's nothing wrong with having that kind of, I never want to go back there. But we've got to also make sure that we think about abundance. So in other words, we we've dealt with the problem, as long as we follow our smart spending and the attention on the jars and the pots, whatever works for you. And you're, you're now a GP or your full time GP, is that right?

Unknown Speaker 30:27
Well, yeah, kind of half and half of my money coaching half the week, and then GP and the other half, right?

Jason Butler 30:31
So I want to just explore them, this thing about identity, right? So identity, money, wealth earning, and the whole thing that you have everyone else out there telling you that they're doing better, or they're high incomes, the answer, you clearly a very talented person, you decided that you wanted to change tech from being a hospital doctor to being a GP, which is a step back, low earnings, recalibration, and now you're augmenting that or rather making more space for the money coaching, but you still doing the gap. And I'm fascinated with that, what I call reinventing yourself not being defined by your early training or your road experience, but equally, not just dumping it all and rushing down to the money coaching as the new heaven till it, just tell me about the thought process and how you went about that and how it's working out?

Unknown Speaker 31:16
Yeah, I use the same approach with patients as I do with people that I coach through that money situations now, it's it's literally, you know, diagnosing the problem, what's the main issue for you, and then let's put some things in place that practical steps to actually help you get out of that. And it's, I love it, I'm addicted to seeing people succeed and doing well with this. And, and when you see the light bulb moment, and someone actually gets it in those are, I can actually get to that thing that I want. Now I can get out of debt, I can see the light at the end of the tunnel. And so I made the conscious choice of not ditching my my GP career because, well, I've worked hard to get in there for first first instance, also, I don't think it's sensible to completely throw in something that earns me good wages, at the expense of somebody of something that isn't established yet. You know, there's no guarantees with building your own business, you'd have to work hard at it, but there are no guarantees. So for me, it was about a portfolio career having having a couple of different things that I do, maybe one day, I will give up the GP thing, or I'll only do maybe want one a week or something like that. But certainly I want to uncouple that need to go to work, you know, that's, that's the bit that I want to not have to have. Because I think you can become so much better at the job that you do, if you're there because you want to be there not because you have to be there to pay the bills.

Jason Butler 32:45
Now, I love that the fact that you are being intentional, I just love that and I can feel the energy from you just over this screen here. You know, you are a different person, even from when I saw you speak live a couple of years ago, I think you still had the debt probably hanging over at this stage there, you know, it's like pebble in your shoe, isn't it? You know, you can't walk completely properly until we get that pebble out. But equally, I think you You are an inspiration because what you've done is you have respected the existing training and job that you've already had. And realizing it wasn't actually medicine that you didn't like it was the terms you were doing it on. Okay. And the relationship with the kind of time it seems to me you've got a little bit more time back. And even if the GP thing pays the basic wealth building and the the wages coming in, and the money coaching is just a nice bit of bumps on top, that's never going to be big seems to me like you will have already inherited the earth because or you'll be a really wealthy person in every sense. Because Because you are making an active choice. And I just wonder what your thoughts are given now that you do coaching with people is how you get people to realize that having a very high income or enormous amounts of wealth is not necessarily the answer to financial freedom and Financial Peace.

Unknown Speaker 33:54
Yeah, I mean, it, I suppose I do it in different ways. But one of the exercises I get people to do is actually look at their outgoings. And when they look at it and see I mean, one lady did this exercise with me. And she found 900 pounds worth of savings across the year. And just like that, just like literally just looking at her subscriptions going I don't even need this so that that 1000 pounds is the difference between one level of income or another level of income and and that's something I've brought home to a couple of other clients as well and I've said look, the job you want to go into Yes, it pays less. But if you cut this out this out this out and this out that actually don't really need in your life, you can totally move up jobs and take on that new role if you wanted to without having to worry about losing out on the majority of what you want to spend on in your life. So it's you have to almost get someone to see it for themselves. I think rather than telling them that because a lot of people will just say Oh, yeah, whatever. But actually it's when they start exploring it in their own finances and they go oh yeah That's that's actually true.

Jason Butler 35:01
Yeah. So Nikki, tell us, tell us what you've learned so far about money, you know, your top tips or whatever that you've learned in your money journey that we can sort of leave everyone with in today's chat.

Unknown Speaker 35:16
Oh, okay. I think if you're feeling guilty, feeling blame, shame, all those bad things about yourself when it comes to money, just stop, because that's not helpful. I know, I felt it. I've been at that rock bottom place where I've just, I've just thought, Oh, you're an idiot, why the hell are you doing this? But actually, I got so much more out of being positive and saying, right, okay, well, I've learned a system to get myself out of debt, I'm going to follow it. And I'm going to keep following it until I actually win at the end. And so yeah, judgment of yourself, beating yourself up, stop it completely, there's no, it's not going to help you. And, and the other thing is, is get a system in place that works for you, it doesn't have to be the same as your sister, the same of your friend, it's just gonna be a system that works for you, and works with who you are as a person. So if you still need to have a budget for buying shoes, then have a budget for buying shoes, but just understand that that is going to impact on the other areas of your money. But no one's gonna stop you from buying shoes, don't think that you have to have a budget that told you you can't buy shoes, you still got to do it. So I think it's it's being it's understanding yourself, and working with what you've got, rather than trying to be someone you're not.

Jason Butler 36:30
And I think there's an interesting point you make is that you don't have to do this on your own. You don't need necessarily a financial advisor unless you've got a very complicated affairs and more money and stuff but but a money coach, you know, I'm a big fan of money coaching. So money coaching, what do you think money coach brings to someone who might be trying to do all this on their own and try to get the blockages sorted? What do they bring that they couldn't necessarily do from just reading some books.

Unknown Speaker 36:56
So the nice thing about having a money coach is that it's, you've got someone to bounce ideas off of. So you can sit there and say, Well, I'm going to achieve this, this, this and this, how do I go and do that. And sometimes our emotions can get, we can be so clouded and so frightened of with that finding out that actually, it stops us from how to think clearly. So if you've got a coach in front of you exactly the same way, a personal trainer would help you if you want to try and lose weight, or or, you know, do something in particular, when the exercises, it's the same with money. You know, it's just giving you that clarity, it's a sounding board, it's somebody that can say, yeah, you can do this, but you've got to make a few changes, you know. So that's, that's what I think money coaching brings, it's that it's the education, it's the support, and it's that it's that person that you can just speak to, there's not going to judge you for what you're doing.

Jason Butler 37:46
And as I say, in your case, someone who's full of humility, you've been there, you've seen it, you don't judge people all you like, as you say, you said to me earlier, you love seeing people succeed. You love seeing people progress, you love seeing people help themselves. So that's brilliant. Nikki, where can people find out more about your, your coaching your story resources? Because on a you know, you've got loads of stuff to help people and where can they find out about you?

Unknown Speaker 38:11
So my website, the female money doctor.com. I've also got a podcast, which is it's, it's a series of 10 minute takeaways. So GPS, we get 10 minutes to see our patients. So I thought, right, my podcast is going to be called the money medicine clinic podcast, and that's apple and Spotify or whatever. And it's literally like a GP surgery. And I just talked about one thing, believe in 10 minutes. Brilliant. So it's very easy to consume.

Jason Butler 38:36
Absolutely. That's a Nikki ram skill, you are a superstar. And I you know, I love everything you're doing. Thank you very much for taking time out of your busy schedule to be with us today. You've you've been really honest and open. I've really loved the insights. And we'll make sure that your website and your and your podcast details are on the show notes. And I hope to see you very, very soon.

Unknown Speaker 38:57
Awesome. Thank you so much for having me.

Jason Butler 39:03
What a lovely lady really enjoyed that. I love that concept when she talked about your personality type, which obviously does have an impact on how you deal with money. And she said, obviously, we can't change our personality type, but what we can realize is our pros and cons, and use the pros to help you be good with money. So that was a good one. Interesting, wasn't it that she had no interest in dealing with her finances so that when she fell into that relationship, she was quite happy to abdicate responsibility to someone who wasn't really competent. And his style of handling the money was to sort of give her an allowance that made her feel like she was being controlled, which sort of really perpetuated that impulsive spending behavior. And what was interesting was that after she came back from that trip, she reflected about learning about money, and she jumped straight into a property investing course, which was really not suitable for her because she hadn't really sorted out the basics so she had to go back and sort the basics out after She'd spent money and time on that course. And I loved the idea that because she already had a debt free plan when her sadly her father passed away, she just accelerated the plan with that windfall that she received her inheritance rather than just blowing it and making yourself feel good. And I love that final message she left us with, stop feeling bad about yourself and judging yourself for past behavior. And a money coach might be able to help you break cycles and think differently and give you that accountability and help you find some shortcuts to that financial peace and harmony. Wonderful, wonderful lady, do check her out really recommend. She's got lots of material on our website, and her podcast show. So I said that's another episode in the can. Thank you for joining me. I'll see you again next week. But please do remember to leave a review on Amazon. And it really does help the show. See, okay.

Thanks for listening to real money stories with me, Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk. For more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested

Transcribed by https://otter.ai