51. Rob Moore Buys Happiness

In this Real Money Stories episode, I speak to Rob Moore about how he went from broke artist to multi-millionaire serial entrepreneur in five years. Rob is an entrepreneur, investor, author, founder of the Rob Moore Foundation and co-founder of Progressive Property and Progressive Success.

Rob explains how he has handled setbacks and mistakes, the role of luck versus effort and why human relationships are so vital to his success. We also discuss what it means to be happy and prosperous and what money can and can't do for you.

Despite being wealthy, Rob emphasises why he thinks it's so important to have a clear idea of his lifestyle costs, to avoid losing control of his money. And he outlines the importance of being clear on his personal values to help guide his money-related decisions and actions.

This is a super episode filled to the brim with great wisdom. Make sure that you listen to it more than once. If you enjoy this episode, please leave a review on your preferred podcast platform and be sure to follow Real Money Stories the homepage.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less, and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested. Hello there, Jason here. Before we get into the show, I just wanted to point out some useful money resources on my website at jason-butler.com. If you go to the site, and go to the Tools tab, you can now download the strategic money plan, the smart spending system and the eight money milestones. So go to jason-butler.com, to download your free tools. Now, let's get into the show.

Jason Butler Today I'm joined by a very special guest, entrepreneur and legendary money guru, Rob Moore.

Rob Moore Hello Jason.

Jason Butler For any people on my podcast who don't know who you are, do you want to just explain to people we do the deep dive going back as to what you currently do now what you're up to and, and what you're involved in.

Rob Moore 1:30
At the moment, I'm taking another mini retirement now I've taken a few of those in my life. To focus more I've built a studio home, music listening room and studio where I can do YouTube, Facebook, zoom, etc lives. I'm going to connect back to finding some passions outside of business like I'm going to start a martial art again, I'm going to probably take up golf again. And I'm probably going to take a six month or so mini retirement. That's where I am right now. Now anyone who's followed me for years has seen me take a few mini or semi retirements over the years. And I'm in the fortunate position where I became a millionaire between age 30 and 31. So financially, I am I you know, it's been 10 years plus since I kind of needed any more money or became financially free if you like, before literally the lockdown. You would you could call me an author because I've written 16 books. I've currently just editing 1718 and 19. as we speak. My podcast a disruptive entrepreneur is very successful podcast in the UK. So you could call me a podcaster. I broke the world record for the longest individual speech and the longest team speech. And I've done what 11 1200 public speeches. So you could call me a public speaker, I suppose. What am I transcending all of that is I'm an entrepreneur. Now an entrepreneur is defined in the dictionary as someone who takes risk in the hope of profit. And I would add to that someone who takes risk in the belief that they're going to get profit, not the hope, and in multiple disciplines. So I think a business person might have one company but I think an entrepreneur loves to start things and loves to build multiple companies. And then my personal vision is to help as many people on the planet get a better financial education and start and scale their business. And I'm, I have a foundation that's helping young and underprivileged and startup entrepreneurs get their meaningful mission message and business out to the masses. So that's a little bit about me, oh, I have a few hundred properties as well. I started as a property investor, what, 15 years ago, but really, that's that's managed by our letting agency and my business partner so I'm not so hands on.

Jason Butler 3:41
So really, you've not done a lot. You're not really aiming higher. I'm really a bit of a loser. Right. Okay. But you know, we take all sorts here. That's fine. Rob. Yeah. Well,

Rob Moore 3:49
I think my haters think I'm a loser, Jason. So yeah,

Jason Butler 3:53
you know, the thing is, it's a very very packed life very interesting and it's why I want to get you on the on the show and I have heard you tell lots of stories. But I need to really get those stories to a wider audience because because entrepreneurialism isn't the only route to wealth right? But it's one route to wealth and it's one go to to realizing not just wealth but also your your way in life. So let me back because I've not actually heard the story about when you really young you know, when you first growing up, what were your first associations and experiences and memories of money.

Rob Moore 4:27
So when I was six years old, my dad got me working in his pub, and absolutely love that look up to my dad. He was such a successful pub landlord bar restaurant club hotel owner, and he'd get me down in the pub in the early morning style without vacuuming. And that was right for a while the carpet one of the pubs. People will drop pound coins on the floor and you couldn't see them because of the color of the carpet. So I found that find a load of pound coins and I loved it. And then dad would get me emptying the tills and counting Backing up the money and how much do we take last night son as if I was sort of like a partner in his business. He'd get me emptying the pool tables, the fruit machines, the pinball machines, you know, and counting all the money and bagging out when the 50 peas were like, huge. Remember the old 10 peas which were here, and I absolutely loved it and it paid me a pound a week and I'd go down to the pound shop and buy a picture of a Ferrari one week picture of a Lamborghini another week picture of a Corvette another week. And that's where I, I guess I started a love for entrepreneurship and money and cars and all those kinds of things. And I was working all the way through till probably 21. Even at university, I was working in the pub through the week ie the Ratan parrot pub at university. And in the weekends, I drive home and work at my dad's pub. But then went back to my mum and dad's pub after uni, because dad wasn't very well. So what was i 21 then, and then for four years, I work there, earning 200 quid a week getting more in debt, I'd already built a lot of debt from university. So I've got 50 grand in debt at one point, and just lost my way I knew I didn't want to work in the polling pints my whole life. But I guess I'd forgotten how my dad raised me to be an entrepreneur. And then December, the 15th 2005, my dad had this massive nervous breakdown, just outside the front of his pub in front of all of his customers, the police, the map and section them and it was quite a horrific experience for me, my mom, my sister, who were all out in the front, watching the police do this and watching my dad go through this and my dad had worked 35 years in the pub leisure, you know, trade, smoking ban really hurt his business, when supermarkets got licenses that really hurt his business. And then, you know, over the the years, people stopped going to buy everyone used to go to a pub didn't need to socialize 20 years ago, anywhere. But you know, this, there's bars, there's restaurants, there's be stroz, there's people that are doing zooms now. So year by year, the poptray got much harder. And then so that just ground himself down, really. And to see that was quite horrific for me. So it just shamed and guilted and embarrassed and humiliated, Amelia humiliated me into thinking, I've got to do something with my life. And I didn't know what or how. But I just knew I had to do something. And that kick started a chain reaction of events. I went to property networking event, I met my business partner.

Jason Butler 7:39
Whoa, hold on. Wait, hold on. Wait, Rob, before we go on there. That's great. I just want to go back a little bit if we can, I'm not gonna let you off the hook. And thank you for being very open about your family's situation. I know you said that before it is anyone suffering that that is a traumatic situation. And that's just luck, right? That stuff happens. You can't odds that and sometimes luck does come along. But just go back about Tell me about how you got into the debt. What was the stories that you were telling yourself? What were the habits that you developed? What were How did it happen?

Rob Moore 8:07
So I got into debt slowly. And and I think sometimes you feel like you can get into debt quick. But you often don't, you only need to spend a couple of hundred pounds more than you earn each month and 510 years down the line with compounding that can be 2050 100 grands worth of debt. So I guess I was probably clean of debt 18, then you get your credit cards, you go to university, you get your overdrafts, and you just go out a bit too much. And you spend a bit too much money, you've got to pay for the halls of residence, your living expenses. I mean, I was the year before you had to pay your fees. If I'd have had to pay my fees, I'd be 75 grand in debt, or I would have been 75 grand in debt. But it was just spending too much on drink and socializing. You know, just your student accommodation and all that. And bit that building up over three years. Then when I came home, I got a car. So I got a 10 grand loan for a car. And of course, I sold that for three and a half grand three years later and still had the loan for two to three years beyond that. I get my pay packet and then I'd put the cash in the bank, but I buy a cup some clothes or going out on a credit card. And so you earn 200 quid a week, but you spend 250. And so just build up a compound and then what you do is you you take a naught percent credit card to pay off your old credit card, but then you've got you have to pay fees to do that. And then you get to the end of the interest free period and then the interest is really high. So I didn't have any understanding of interest of negative compounding etc. I didn't budget I didn't manage my money. I didn't manage my money, emotions. I talk a lot about managing your money emotions. So what a lot of people do is when they're feeling a bit shitty, they'll go out and they'll you know, they'll go and drink themselves silly or they'll go and buy some clothes or some things that make themself feel better. I was that guy and then if you have a good week you go and celebrate and spend all your money on celebrating and I was that guy so No, no emotions and high emotions I was spending money Monday I didn't have to compound that feeling.

Jason Butler 10:07
So that's how it happened. Okay, well, that is very common, isn't it? But, but to what extent were your spending decisions and you're racking up debt in those early days at uni? To what extent were you influenced also by people around you as opposed to how you felt within but also the people around you and your need to feel connected and part of them. And part because there is a problem. When you're young, you want to be connected you you're finding your way on, you're trying to find out who you are, and also you're trying to make friendships and, and connection. So to what extent did that did that figure or did that not figure it all.

Rob Moore 10:37
But I think it figured very largely. So I have this belief that people will spend money according to their values, ie what they deem is most important to them in their life, they will spend their money on if health is the most important thing to you, you'll spend loads of money on organic food and supplements and blah, blah, blah. If success is important to you, you'll invest in a business or you're buying things that make you look outwardly successful. If family is most important to you, you know, you'll buy an 800 pound push chair, you'll convince yourself you need that when you don't and so I believe people spend according to their voids and values. Now, if you don't feel good about yourself and your worth, I believe you're spending money to try and make yourself feel better about yourself. That could be designer clothes that could be treating people and buying dinner and buying drinks all the time when you go out so that people think well of you. So I bought a master three to three sport It was a car way above my my affordability. But I got a loan and I got the car. So yeah, when I was in my teens and mid 20s I was spending money basically to have other people perceive me well, so then when they perceive me, well, I felt good about myself. Whereas my business partner, he had a 19 pounds brown Vauxhall Nova for years, like five years, I think he had he got it at 17, I think but he drove it all through uni paid 19 pounds, the auction fee was double the price of the car, and he do the oil change himself. And he felt like he felt that made him look good. Because he bought he had a car for five years, which cost him about 65 quid a year. Because he you know, his importance around money is saving investing and protecting capital because that's how his dad raised him. Whereas I was spending money on 500 pound suits when I earn 200 pound a week to look good and to feel good. So yeah, I was definitely doing that. And, you know, I A lot of people say I'm very generous and and I am very generous. But for many years my generosity was to get people to like me. Now my generosity is because I want to feel good and do good things. Like I have this rule whenever I go out for dinner with anyone always pay, whether it's, you know, like a burger for 20 quid, or whether it's you know, two star Michelin for 500 quid I don't care. I'm always the one that wants to pay one because I couldn't afford to go out in 2005 and two, because it's just something I like to do because it it makes me me feel good. But yeah, I I look, I have a 300,000 pound Lamborghini Aventador I have a 1987 Ferrari testa Ross, I've had hundreds haven't had hundred thousand pound watches. So there's still an element of me that is spending money on things that make me feel good and is how people perceive me linked to how good I feel. Well, yes, it is. And that's not necessarily ego or shame or pain. It's just we're an interdependent species. So, you know, we meet people, we see people people think about us and judge us. But I think if you if you can be comfortable about who you are, and not have to prove who you are, and have worth from within and not need to get worth from without ultimately you're probably spending invest your money more wisely. But you know, some people buy 100 pound face creams. So it's not just about cars and watches and it's everything some people buy designer clothes, some people wear nice shoes and handbags. And so I think to manage your money well it is wise to find out what your values are what's most important to you in your life and what void you're trying to fill which are usually linked to your values and try and stop the emotional spending or the spending to fill that hole which never fills

Jason Butler 14:22
so let's just go back to that bit when you've got if I can put it not bottom but you were low you'd had the family situation which is dad You were racking up all the debt and then you you had what did you have an epiphany what was the main what was the catalyst for you to decide First of all, that you needed to change? And secondly, how clear were you what good was gonna look like I In other words, what was the alternative? Was there a really clear path or did you just think, Oh, I just got to take a different step today.

Rob Moore 14:48
Yeah, so there was no path.

So picture being outside the front of a big pub with big bay windows with customers are also my dad's only friends peering through Being frosty outside, it was December 15. And two policemen wrestling my dad to the floor and being in with batons and me, my sister and my mom watching it, not able to do anything about it, and then literally tying him up and chucking him in chucking him in the back of a police van, sectioning him and then not able to properly see him for weeks. That, to me, was an event that and I wouldn't have said, it wasn't like in the movies, you know, where the lights go down, and there's a spotlight on you and the Old Spice music comes out and you get the darker the Epiphany, it wasn't like that. It was just shame, and pain, and sadness. And that turned into me beating myself up because that had raised me to be an entrepreneur, he paid for stuff for me my whole life. He paid me through private school, anytime I needed money. He gave it to me. He gave me a job in his part. He paid me cash around. And I was not stepping up. I was not successful. I was not doing what I was meant to do. I was not making my dad proud. So over what days, maybe a week, I was like, I don't know what but I have to do something. And at the time, I was sort of struggling with my art trying to do our evenings and weekends as well as doing the pub,

Jason Butler 16:23
because that was your hobby. Create your very Yeah,

Rob Moore 16:25
well, I was also also selling paintings. So it wasn't like, you know, but I couldn't get rid of the debt. It took me too long to explain that week. And what happened. And I'd probably be a bit blurry because it was 15 years ago. But in that week, I went from guilt and shame and pain and sadness and loss and Vic, feeling like a victim to anger to motivation. And so at some point as I write, now's the time, and I guess I probably connected back to when I was six 810 when my dad was getting me to do this entrepreneurial stuff, and I loved it. I thought, right? Okay, I need to take responsibility. So the first thing I said was I have to get out of the pub. And it wasn't like I wanted to quit working for my mom and dad is just like, I have to get out of the pub and do something for myself on my own to make my dad proud. Now, when you start making decisions, and you start taking opportunities, it's amazing that you remember things that people have said or given you or instructed or guided that you ignored. Because you've tuned into a different part of your brain. So one of them was for years, my dad and a gallery owner that some of my work Mike Wildman had been saying son get into property Rob, get into property get into property literally probably since 98. Of course, in 2005, everyone was in property, weren't they? So So I heard this all of a sudden get into property. My dad said I should get into property Mike has all right. So I'm Mike, the gallery owner who was in properties. He said, oh, there's a property networking event going on next week. So I went to it, I never would have gone to as an artist. I mean, like, anyway, I went there.

Jason Butler 18:05
How's it? Oh, that's interesting. You just said I would never have gone there as an artist. So therefore you already said to yourself, and many people do that your identity you you had this identity that you thought precluded you from doing property investing,

Rob Moore 18:17
yet? Well, I mean, an identity Yeah, I'm an artist. Also, I don't have any money. So you know, a belief of actually not being able to do it. But also, if I'm honest, I was quite anti anyone who was successful. I'm trying to figure this out in my head. I think I was jealous. But I don't think I was jealous. Because I was jealous. I think I was jealous because I was shamed about myself. But anyone who drove a Ferrari or drug dealer, anyone who's successful and I screwed over anyone who was a property developer or a property investor, yeah, they just, you know, they're like, these evil rattling landlords or whatever. Yeah, I always had a negative story to dismiss opportunity. Because if I had to face that opportunity that would prove to myself that I had failed. But, but then when this happen with my dad, I had nothing to lose. So I had anger and pain turned into motivation. So it's almost like fucking let's try it. Fuck it. Let's try it. Let's try. Okay, let's try. We've got nothing to lose. And I started listening to people, I wouldn't have listened to us. I'd hang around with people I wouldn't have hung around with. And yeah, I went to this property networking event ended 2005 first one I ever went to, and I met my business partner, Mark kkoma. They're the last guy in the bar. We own hundreds of properties together. We've made hundreds of millions of pounds, and gross. And that all started that day, which was probably a week or 10 days after my dad's breakdown. So no, I didn't know what it was gonna be. And now I didn't know how it was gonna be. I just had the pain driven motivation to go and search. So I go to this property networking event I never would have gone to. I met a guy who I never would have been interested in because he was a businessman and I would have always dismissed that. And then he gave me three books to read, I read them in a week, I'd never read those kinds of books. I went to see him in his office met his boss, and they and I pitched myself to get a job, I never would have worked at any place like that before, you know, selling property investment to investors. I forged a friendship I never would have forged, then we set up on our own when I never would have done it. And just sort of, well, you know, within, we've got the largest property training company in the UK progressive property that never would have started 16 books of author date, they never would have happened. So it's funny how your life can take these new courses and routes and you can look at opportunities you never would have seen when your mind is open to them.

Jason Butler 20:43
So interesting. You the pain got so much. And you took the first step. Now it's a really important takeaway for people when the pain gets so much new are not prepared to it. Because think it was never who is one of your shows recently. All right. Yeah. And he says, You've got to make this a good friend. Yeah, I know. And he said a really great line, which was, you go so not just Know What You Will you do want but also what you are not prepared to put up with. That was a really, and I heard you say that before. So the pain was too much. You didn't have a big plan, you just took one step forward, that was different and beyond your comfort zone. So how important do you think Gary Player said to me, luck, you know, luckier, because the more I practice, the luckier I get. To what extent do you think luck plays a part in people's relationship with money and how they are they the kind of lifestyle they lead and the choices they have?

Rob Moore 21:37
Hmm, yeah. And so I'm going to come back to luck. I wrote a book called start now get perfect later. And I have trained coached spoken to, there's not an exaggeration to say hundreds of thousands of entrepreneurs. And too many people are looking for the perfect plan before they start, you cannot create the perfect plan before you start. You can only adapt and evolve a plan that becomes better over time. Therefore, you need to start now and build as you go. And I think the breakdown that my dad had, that got me into that phase of so much pain, I had nothing to lose, which helped. Because if I'd been 42 and three kids and a massive mortgage and two car loans that would have been different. So you could argue timing was lucky for me there Jason because I was 25 living with my parents Yeah, debt, but didn't have a massive amount to lose. So I think you can create the plan on the way as you go not before you go, otherwise you never start something that in all walks of life help you. And then the next thing with luck, Hmm, I think luck is not a binary or a simple definition. So I'm just going to give you a few thoughts on luck. I think that through our lives, we're all likely to have good things that happen to us that we perceive as lucky. and bad things that happen to us that we perceive are unlucky. And I think over our lives, many of us are going to get our share of those. I also think I do believe in some kind of attraction or manifestation or that you you attract into your life, what you put out to your life, you know, you you create opportunities, meetings, journeys, and openings, based on your decisions and actions. So I'm not a particular believer in predestination or destiny, are more of a believer in continued creation, based on thoughts, decisions and actions. Now, if you want to take a look, if you want to take if you want to take ultimate responsibility for your life, ultimate responsibility, I think you have to park a belief of luck. ultimate responsibility is I create everything good, bad, right, wrong, Lucky unlucky. That's ultimate responsibility, cause and effect, I am the cause and I create the effect. But there's no doubt timing can be seen as fortunate looking back. And meetings like my meeting with Mark Houma, first networking event I ever went to, you could enter a load of people to sell or Rob, I've been to 50 or 60. And I haven't met my mark Homer. So I'd have to say I'd have to thank the universe and be grateful for that opportunity. But you could argue I was looking for it so hard, or you could argue that I made it happen. I don't really know. Yeah, I feel grateful and blessed that I met him. Do I feel lucky? Well, honestly, I'd have met him at some point because I was so motivated. And by the way, we had to work our relationship and we still have to work our relationship. So I'm going to there probably are chance things that seem serendipitous, or forge fortuitous. There are probably chance things that say hard and negative and down. But I think if you want to be someone who creates opportunity, and you want to be in control fully of your own life, you have to own everything that happens in your life. And everything that seems to be all perceived downside, you have to see the upside. And then everything that looks like it's upside, you have to see some downside.

Jason Butler 25:20
Well, the stoics, say there's, you have to accept, first of all, the only thing you can control is your response and your judgments. Everything else is as it will be. But you're absolutely right. And I've seen from all the people I've interviewed over all the years, I've interviewed about 1400 people in, Wow, that's a lot right about their money. So I've had a lot of conversations with people. And you're right, it's how you react to things. And it's how you the stories you tell us are so segwaying, then into the next bit really, which is I'm fascinated to hear about is not just the you know, overnight success in 15 years, because it was hard work. Right. And I want to hear about some of the missteps, the obstacles, the mistakes, the problems, because I think sometimes people think that good outcomes, they only see the good times, right? They only see the outcomes when it's all gone. Right? They don't see necessarily how you deal with adversity and how you develop resilience. So do you want to just touch on a few money related things there? You don't have to go into the actual numbers, but just just a story or two, that might give us a sense of how you reacted to that because life is full of disappointments, right?

Rob Moore 26:23
Yeah. So

I'm the sort of person that will try something. And if I'm in doubt, I will test it out. So I see my journey as in business and entrepreneurship as a continual experiment. And once you figure out one experiment, it might work for a while, and then it might not, or there's always a new experiment to carry out marketing, sales, recruitment, growth strategy, etc, podcasting, writing books. So in that regard, you could argue I've not really failed, other than testing to figure out what works and by default, and definition, taking off things that don't. I've never gone past and Mark and I have never lost money that's been loaned to us. We've never had any major epic failure in business. But I've made lots of little mistakes. So okay,

Jason Butler 27:34
you go small with something. And if it is a blow up or a problem, you cut it at the legs before it becomes can do any more damage? Well,

Rob Moore 27:42
yeah, I like to think I like to try and fail fast,

frequently,

and safely.

It'd be nice if there was a word that begins with F, a safe. So I'd rather fail quickly get out of the way, because it's not going to be massive. If it's quick. I'd rather it be small, not big. And I'd rather it be relatively often. So I can learn and adapt rather than successful for three years, and then a massive epic failure. And so I have a more iterative, experimental progressive journey of failure. I get asked all the time, Rob, what's your biggest failure in business, but I haven't got a massive failure in business, I've got loads of little ones, I can give you some specific examples. So it also, by the way, depends how you view failure. If you view failure as feedback, there is no failure is just part of a journey. I really believe you can't succeed your way to success. It's impossible. No one succeeds, first time, you can't succeed your way to success, you have to fail your way to success. So if you think about playing an instrument, how many times you need to practice you fail 1000 times before you get the chords right on the guitar. So one thing that is clear to a lot of people in my property training industry is the amount of partnerships we've had. So we've probably had 30, partnerships, speakers, trainers, partners, and we've got 1234, I'd say three higher profile, and then maybe one to let's say, five to 10 not very high profile at all partners and speakers that have worked with us in partnership, but then have moved on some because they wanted to happen competition, some because they want to change industry, some because we had to we had to let them go because there was an indiscretion or there was something around their past or whatever. Now critics of my company will go look at all those failed partnerships and their speakers that they have in and then they end up leaving. But we've got dozens of speakers, partners trainers who've been with us for three years, five years, seven years or longer. They're very loyal to us. And we're very loyal to them. So, you know, if you want to grow globally, as a training business, you need dozens of partnerships. You need promoters, you need people to run the events. You need marketers, you need agencies, you need speakers, you need trainers. So, each one of those partnerships Mark and I and Catherine, our MD, we always look at them go, what what could we have done better? Did we did we go wrong there? Were we a bit defensive, you know, was their perception accurate? But in reality, partnerships come and go. So I can actually look up that I could look back at that with a stoic attitude, the stoic attitude would be, we did nothing wrong, it was exactly as it should be. Because to try and think that something should have been different is the opposite of a stoic mentality, stoicism would be you cannot wait, you cannot wish for anything to be other than it is. So therefore, I can't perceive them as mistakes. I just have to perceive them as part of the journey. Now, are there things I would do differently? Yes. And will I have future partnerships that might break? Yes. But what a lot of people do is they have a partnership with breaks and they go well, partnerships don't work. Or I should just work on my own or I'm never gonna have a partner again. Because when people always screw me over, and then they can't grow.

Jason Butler 31:17
Let one define them. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So yeah, just don't say talking on the punches. But go back to the mark situation when you met Mark, you had 50 grands worth of debt you said and you you were still had the artist mentality the pain of your father situation you met Mark, who you pretty much realized he was on the same floor different but he was the man for you. How did you get your your base business without you know, in very simple terms, if you had all that debt, what did you do just have to work for someone and earn bonuses for a bit to pay it off and live like a monk?

Rob Moore 31:46
So

Mark, the apex of my debt was December Oh, five, January Oh, six. Right at the time, when obviously what happened with my dad, I by the end of February oh six mark with Mark's help, I blacked a job for a property investment company who was selling property investments. And I and I figured I can learn on the job here because I wanted to learn about property. And this guy mark is really interesting to me. And we're building a bit of a friendship and he seems to know what he's talking about. And he's got quite a few properties all ready and is a similar age. So there was that. And then I thought, I actually didn't tell them this, but I was prepared to work for free. commission only. In through the day, and then evenings and weekends, I'll do my art because I was kind of doing my art anyway. But they gave me a job minimum wage. So I think it was four or five pounds an hour back then. But they were paying me 500 pound a commission for a deal done. Now, by the way, I thought this was a complete black mark black debt, I blacked it and our Boston Terry thought, Well, what have I got to lose money paying a minimum wage. I'm glad I didn't tell him how to work for free. And I had no sales experience, no training on the phone, nothing about property. So I'm Mark sort of took me under his wing. And he's like, rah, rah, you want to do this, you want to sell these deals, these are the deals that sell well stick to the UK. Get on some sales, training, learn sales from this guy, buy these CDs, these audios jump on this course. And I was just learning on the job as learning about property on the job learning about selling on the phone to people on the job. bout July August that year, I've done quite a few sales. And Mark was teaching me about managing money. So instead of just spending it, I was knocking off the credit cards, or saving the money, not as helping me look at again, every mortgage for the house I lived in, because I'd have ridiculously high mortgage because I didn't have any clue about money. And then there was a speaking opportunity that came up. So basically, we had an opportunity to stand on a stage in front of 250 people and do a talk and sell our property deals. And both mark and Terry, my boss didn't want to do it. They made out that they did but they didn't. And I just put my hat in the ring. I said No, fuck it, I'll do it. And then that was the first time I was really able to do something that neither of those could. But I was able to add some extra value. And I went and did the speech and I went and did a course and learn public speaking I actually went to do the course in Australia, I got my boss to pay for the I paid for the flights and he paid for the accommodation in the course and we did a little joint venture. And I did this public speaking and I sold some property deals from the stage to you know 250 people and I got paid a load of commission so I learned the art of one to many not one to one. And by the end of that year. I'd probably earn not quite 100 grand but it weren't far off. And I'd picked off most of my debt and I'd remortgage my properties and my property. And I've got my I paid off some of my credit cards and I've got my interest and my overheads. down, I actually had enough money and I bought a new sound 350 said, with the proceeds of the the sales I'd done. And I pretty much got myself not quite, but I was nearly clear by then, by the end of that year mark and I had been planning to because we'd figured out a few things and a few things weren't right in that company. So in January oh seven, we sell progressive property, our company where we decided to sell properties, but we wanted local older properties, not overseas off planned developments. And so then we were doing it for ourselves, we're making a lot more of the money not doing it for someone else, instead of getting 500 quid a commission, you know, Mark, and I would get 1500 quid each for selling a property deal. And because we didn't have any obeyed, we're able to take most of that. So in in in the early months of that company, I whacked off all my debt. So maybe 12 to 16 months, I got got rid of all the debt. And then we were clear. And because there was only me and him, we didn't have much overhead. And then we did our first ever course. And we made about 25 grand each on that because again, we weren't paying staff or overhead or anything like that.

And then it'll build from there.

Jason Butler 36:09
But interesting, you bought yourself a swanky car while you're still paying off the debt. So clearly, you still not

Rob Moore 36:14
nice, nice pretty much clearly I bought cash.

Jason Butler 36:16
Oh, okay. So yeah, you've still hit. So in other words, as you've missed is interesting. As you've gone through your wealth building, and you're earning, how have you one of the biggest problems, you know, I've met people who are high earners have still never built wealth because of spending every penny that comes in, right? How have you managed to make sure that the wealth is always ahead of the lifestyle? if you will?

Rob Moore 36:38
Yeah. Okay. So you need to, you need to know what you spend every month. So you need to have a clear budget and an eye on your money. And people earn a lot of money. Because they earn so much money, they sort of almost think that budgeting is beneath them or that they don't need to, or they can be quite chaotic, disorganized, because I can be that too. So the first thing is you've got to know what your personal overheads are, and you've got to, you know, know what your budget is, this sounds like such an obvious thing. But it's a fundamental rule of money, never spend more than you earn, never spend more than you earn, never spend more than you earn. And a lot of people are spending 120% of what they earn every month. So they're building debt. Whereas if you spend 80%, of what you earn every month, that'll compound the other way. That's the second. And the third thing is you've got to preserve capital. So if you put capital into a 50 grand car that is 20 grand in three years, you've turned that 50 grand into 20 grand, and you've got the ongoing management and maintenance and insurance and petrol and reliability, you bought a car Exactly. Whereas if you put that 50 grand into a property that appreciates to 200 grand in 20 years and produces income. So by the way, at some point, you're going to want to buy things, but if you buy things with either minimal capital outlay, or things that don't erode in value, so I like hi fi and I buy hi fi equipment, I have a quarter of a million pound hi fi system. But if I sold that I'd get I'll be 220 225,000 pounds back. Whereas you could easily buy a hi fi system for a quarter million quid that in three years would be worth 100 grand. When I buy a watch or buy Patek Phillipe, Rolex or or pay gay and they usually go up in value. I buy stuff secondhand, I buy clothes in the sales often so often buy McQueen at 40% off. So I'm what I'm trying to do is preserve capital at all costs. Because capital creates assets and assets produce income. But if you erode capital, you have nothing to build an asset to

Jason Butler 38:30
create income. That's the point I think was really well said, and I read it in your money book, because that, that it doesn't really matter what anyone else is doing with their lifestyle, you can still have nice things, but not at the expense of your capital base. And that's the point I think I'm making, isn't it?

Rob Moore 38:43
Yeah, yeah. So really, I look at my capital. And I go, where do I want to move that capital to give me the lifestyle that I want preserving it. So I had a pair of the speakers I had before ones I've got were called PMC. And they were 13,000 pound new, and I paid seven for them. And I sold them for eight, three years later. So basically, if you think about this, I got paid 1000 quid to borrow a pair of speakers for three years. Now, if I bought them new at 13 grand and sold them for eight, I'd have had to pay five grand to essentially rent those speakers for three years, people get ownership very confused. You don't own anything, you own nothing, because when you die, it's all gone. So really all you do is rent things for an amount of time. You either rent it by renting it or renting it by hire purchasing it or renting it by leasing it, or renting it by exchanging your capital for it. So I look at everything as rental or temporary ownership. So how do I preserve the capital the most? So sometimes, you'll hire purchase or lease something. So Mark and I often lease cars By the way, sometimes we put cash into cars as well. So I've got a 1987 Ferrari Testarossa which I think will go up So I put cash into that. So that was 100. And I paid all in 125 for that hundred and 25,000. So that was, that's all cash, but a Lamborghini Aventador, you're not going to put 300 grand into that, because that is going to sink. So we got one, we paid 255 for the for 320 grand car, and we put minimum deposit in it. So we just paying the ongoing payments, so we're minimizing the amount of cash that we lose. And then if you have an asset that produces income that pays the monthly payments, so a lot of people will buy a 30 gram mark. But what you can do is put money into a couple of houses to get 250 300 pound net income. And then you can lease that 30 grand Merc for 250 pound a month, and then you can use the income from the properties to pay for the lease. And then you preserve capital.

Jason Butler 40:52
Well, you're talking about funding lifestyle from assets.

Rob Moore 40:56
Yeah, exactly. So you basically pay for liabilities with assets. Now, while I don't always get this, right, so a couple of my watches have gone down, but most of them have gone up a lot before the lockdown, I sold a lot of my rolexes. I've made 300 and 350% on them. Some of my hi fi equipment, you know what I struggled to get my money back, but others I get most of my money back. So the main things in my life that that maybe give me joy watch is cars, not including the house that you live in, that's obvious, but watch his cars. Hi fi experiences. So if you can use income from assets to fund all those, you're preserving capital.

Jason Butler 41:36
And just obviously, because I'm conscious of your time here, but you did touch on one live talk, I heard you talking about how you're teaching your children about money is always a problem. I've noticed I mean, I have a very comfortable lifestyle. And I know many, many people who do and even, you know people with modest lifestyles, but but nice living, they always struggle. A lot of people struggle with teaching money values to their children, so the children can stand on their own two feet and not be defined by their parents success. So any thoughts on that?

Rob Moore 42:06
Yes, no. The thing with parenting, I want you to know, I'm no guru parents. So you're asking. I'm just giving you my view. And my opinion, I'm not saying this is fact. Because I've got far more experience in entrepreneurship than I have in parenting, My children are five and nine, they're not 25. One thing I've discovered is most of the time, and I think people will agree with me with this. Your kids don't listen to you. But they will do what you do. So the frustrating thing with being a parent is they can shout and scream at you 15 times and you're calm and measured. And then on the 15th time you shout them back. And that's all they remember. So I think with children, they will copy what you do not what you say. So what I'm trying to do with raising my kids is show them rather than tell them now in the earliest to my kids, I'd be telling them this and telling them that and giving them these tips and giving them these advice, which was really great, but I don't think they were listening to me, because it comes from daddy. Whereas if you show them, I think that they get it more. So learn learning about money through playing games like monopoly, or coming on viewing properties with me, or listening to podcasts and audiobooks in the car with me, or getting them involved in discussions that I have in the family and making them feel included. I think that that serves them. So I tell my son about my properties and my daughter, but she's just a bit young at the moment. When we walk around town I show him the properties that we've got. I try and get him to understand the concepts through experience. And so that's that's the first thing. I also think you've got to understand what interests your kids and try and figure out how you want to raise them based on their interests. So at the moment, my son is interested in fortnight and Roblox and Minecraft. Now, we're hoping it's just a phase is locked down. He does it with his friends, we've kind of let him come September is going to have no time to do that. He's going to have to get back into football and golf and other things. But if I want Bobby to earn some money or understand the value of work or learning about money, I've probably got to relate it to Roblox Minecraft. fortnight may be getting to earn time on that by working and then when he's working, getting paid for it and teaching him the value of work, teaching him that you get paid based on the value that you create. So not half doing jobs. If he does a half job, he gets paid half. If he does a full job he gets paid for. But if he does more than he's asked for he gets a bonus. So through these jobs and through this work, I'm trying to teach him all the things because I believe in life. If you do a half job, you'll get have paid. But then I interviewed Well, I've interviewed many billionaires, but one of them said to me, always do more than you're paid for. And you'll get paid more. Whereas a lot of people are just looking to get paid for minimum work. Always do your best work. Yeah, yeah. If you're paid to do the garden, do the, you're paid to do the back garden, do the front garden as well. Hmm. And you do and don't ask for any more money, but do more than you're paid for. And you'll get more because people look at how he does it, he does more than he's paid for. And then you'll end up getting paid more, you'll get new jobs. And so, but we all learn best, and most, I believe, based on what's most important to us, based on our highest values. So I think the most the sweetest and most compelling influence, is when we link what we want someone to do based on their most highest values, and then they're most likely to do it.

Jason Butler 45:51
And just one thing I want to ask you before we sort of gradually wrap up is there is a paradox, where a lot of research shows that when people are higher earners are more wealthy. And this is obviously there are variations, that people because there's value of their time is so much more economically higher, you know, more valuable financially, that paradoxically, a number of those people find it hard to actually use their time for the little things in life because the cost of using that time for things other than economic return is so enormous they get into that not just the headunit not Hedden ism of consumption, I'm talking here about, they get into the loop of earning and earning and earning because not earning, the cost of not earning is so high that they then can't take time out to take the dog for a walk, or just sit and watch the river go by or whatever it is whatever trite thing you want to come up with, but but I just wonder what your perspective is on that being someone who, who does make two billionaires and is very, very successful financially themselves?

Rob Moore 46:48
Yeah, I think one thing I'm going to say is, I think, if you look at anything and everything exists in a paradox. So I think if you're looking for a one sided fantasy, ie money will make you happy. Or you will retire when I think that's a distraction and an illusion. I can't think of anything, that's not a paradox. put yourself out there and social media, build your brand, but attract loads of haters. Yeah. I just can't think of anything that doesn't have an equally balanced downside, or, or upside. So I think understanding that everything is a paradox helps you get your head round, imbalance perceptions of extremes. And I've certainly got into the addictive loop that I want to work more because there's more to chase. And every time you go up a level, you look at the next level rather than thinking are this is a level above where I wanted to be 12 months ago. But then that drive keeps you motivated, and keeps you growing, and keeps you contributing, you know, if you've got a meaningful product, and you know, you want to sell hundred million of them, not five of them, the world will benefit from you selling 100 million million of them, not five. And your reward will be linked to the value of the contribution and the number of people that you contribute to. So the world needs you to grow. But the growth paradox is, when does it end? And when do you find happiness? And what's the destination? Well, the answer is never. So the happiness is in the moment, not the future. And so I think if people are feeling like I'm addicted to work, or I'm always chasing another level, or because I can earn really well I need to maximize that. I think it is balancing taking time to just be rather than to do. And maybe for example, if we're taking the dog for a walk, you could listen to a podcast or an audiobook. So you could net time in

Jason Butler 48:56
there's a good book coming out soon. I know. Yeah,

Rob Moore 48:58
Yes, there is. I mean, I like to do these interviews in the garden. I know sometimes there's a bit of background noise. But I like being in the garden. I'm feeling relaxed, but I'm also doing this interview. So I think that's a nice trade off. Balancing passion profession work and play you could argue because if I wasn't doing it during this interview, my I enjoy sitting in the garden and this is apparently the hottest day of the year, I'd enjoy that. I actually am doubling enjoy joying it. I'm also live feeding it to my Facebook page as well. So I think the the hustle versus the rest, you know the do versus the be the monetizing versus the giving. I think these all paradoxes that exist. And I work out two and a half to three hours a day of my time where I'm purely donating it to help people whether it's interviews, podcasts, one to one calls, pure contribution. And if I ring fence that and set that and I'm doing that With gratitude, I'm not like, oh, man, it could be any five grand in this hour. But for the other five hours or six hours or the rest of the hours, I might decide to work. I'm selling my time.

Jason Butler 50:11
Exactly what you're saying is being intentional, realizing that life is Shades of Grey, and live in the moment, as opposed to constantly chasing the dream, but still move forward. Okay, well, Rob, you have been an absolute mind. What do you want to leave everyone with? Before you go before we say goodbye? Is there anything you want to leave?

Rob Moore 50:28
Yeah, I mean, I've finished all my

content with my saying, if you don't risk anything, you risk everything. But one thing I'd like to add, as we've been talking about money is a lot of people say that money doesn't make you happy. I have never heard a rich person say that I've only ever heard people who are kind of struggling financially. But what I will say is that money in and of itself won't make you happy. But embracing wealth and riches into your life under fair exchange, where you're giving value equal to the wealth that you're creating, creates, and can help you create joy. And money tends to exaggerate traits, behaviors or experiences in your life. So the more money that you have, it will accelerate your values, and it will enhance your experiences. So really understand, whilst money won't make you more happy, it will accelerate and exaggerate your traits and experiences. So to create great experiences and to magnify great traits. Money is an enabler and a fuel and an accelerator of those. And I think when you see it like that you embrace more money in your life.

Jason Butler 51:46
Absolutely. Well, Rob Moore legend in amazing money, legend. Thanks very much for your time. And people, your website, what's your main website that people can go and check you out on and find out all about your stuff.

Rob Moore 51:58
So robmoore.com, and who are you can find links to my books, my podcasts, the disruptive entrepreneur, all my social media channels.

Jason Butler 52:05
Yeah, absolutely. You've been very could be a time. Appreciate that, Rob, and it's been a pleasure to be with you. And I'll be following you with interest in the future.

Rob Moore 52:13
Thank you very much.

Jason Butler 52:19
Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me, Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk For more details, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai