41. Don Fraser Masters his Money Emotions

Listen to this Real Money Stories episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or Podbean by clicking the links and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

This week I speak to Don Fraser, chartered financial planner and director at Capital Asset Management.

The power of peer-pressure spending and the contagious notion that affluence ought to be rewarded by material consumption are emotive behaviours that Don experienced first-hand.

Boasting a 41 year career in finance and fortified by his own lessons, Don shares his formula for mastering money emotions. YOU too can make decisions for your hard-earned cash with clarity and confidence.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. Real Money stories is the only UK podcast which shares personal money stories of everyday people. So their insights can help you to be better with money. My name is Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money, journey, or world on the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Hello, and welcome to another edition of real money stories, the podcast where we speak to people from a wide range of backgrounds about their money journey, their highs and lows and what they've learned about money. I'm Jason Butler, your host and this week, I'm really pleased to be joined by a person who has so much he experience and so much wisdom and knowledge when it comes to personal finance and money because not only is he got an interesting story, which we'll hear today about his own journey, but he spent a lifetime of his working career as he'll explain, advising some very successful, very well known celebrities, which we I'm sure he's going to be very discreet about that. But Mr. Don Fraser Hello, Don.

Don Fraser 1:23
Hi. Hi, Jason. Hi.

Jason Butler 1:25
Thanks for yeah, and thanks for joining us on the show. I'm really excited to have you on because you're a very youthful guy, but you've got a lot of experience. So before we get into your history, or backstory, do you want to just tell everyone what you actually do for for a day job as it were?

Don Fraser 1:42
Okay, I'm a director and Chartered Financial Planner at capital asset management in London, although at the time of recording, not in London because I'm in lockdown. And I joined Alan Smith and the team there is seven just over Seven years ago.

Jason Butler 2:04
So your financial advisor and you do have is it predominately people in the music and entertainment industries, I always have your background.

Don Fraser 2:12
I've got the niche in the television production company area of business and that came about as a backstory when I was at a major accountancy firm in London and they had a specialist team dealing in film and television and media and it just became a natural affinity for me because I just loved the people they were dealing with. And that's just carried carried on and, and grown from there.

Jason Butler 2:43
Okay, we'll obviously get to that. So let's go back let's I know you live in. Is it happened at all? hartfordshire something like that? Yeah, um, yeah, but you you're a London guy aren't you you're born and brought up in London?

Don Fraser 2:54
Well, not quite No. No, I was I was born in in Kuala lumper, in what is named Malaysia, because I was an army army child, so travelled extensively around the world following my father. And I'm a bit of a nomad really So lift in several countries and all over the UK, but eventually settled in, I guess the last family home before I moved out was instant organs, which is not far from where I live now. And always then worked in in London from the early 70s. And my wife, I met in London, and we lived there for a while before we relocated to hartfordshire to bring up our three daughters.

Jason Butler 3:41
Okay, well, that's interesting. So you had a very eclectic upbringing. And obviously, the army is a very sort of kind of regimented sort of career. Tell us about you know, the early days then when you were growing up, what was it what is the sort of what your memories about money and finance and and lifestyle When you were quite young,

Don Fraser 4:02
okay when I when I was young, I've only lived in some fascinating places and Hong Kong for two years while it's being built in that 6061 62 period. I can't remember Malaya because I was I was just a baby there before being brought back to Scotland. But my mother was the dominant matriarch of the family because my father was constantly posted in various places and was rarely at home from from memory. So it is. I had two sisters and my mother says very female orientated and I think was the army paid reasonably well. And sometimes we lived in army housing. I don't think money was ever a dominant issue in our lives growing up we did we did okay. Our contemporaries appeared today. Like us and live like us. I didn't see massive divides of poverty and wealth apart from living in foreign countries where it is very prominent. Obviously, in places like Hong Kong, you could see that the local Chinese live very differently from people in the British Army at the time. But No, we didn't. We didn't have any obvious money worries, but I like doing I like doing jobs. I like getting paid for cutting the grass or washing the car or doing the paper. And that was just a sense of personal accomplishment. And no, it was, it was rather ordinary early doors, but looking back, it was a bit extraordinary. But at the time, it just felt Yeah, just I just thought I was like everyone else who knew the way we did, which wasn't true but felt like it.

Jason Butler 5:51
So you don't remember any conversations. There were no conflicts about money or there was no kind of big windfalls or anything that sort of sticks in your mind. Does young person that relate to So no, no,

Don Fraser 6:03
I don't think I've ever heard my parents ranting or arguing about money. But here's here's the thing. My my father was a Highland Scott from komitee, north of Inverness, and my mother is Northumbrian and both both those caliber people are very frugal when it comes to money. So we did live in a profligate household sharing clothes. My sisters and things aren't that home knitting home baking? Yeah. I remember going to the butchers back in the day when it butchers knew your parents name. And my mother always used to order certain cuts which on reflection in hindsight, were perhaps not the choicest cuts of the day. You know, remember eating very chewy liver Not all liver had veins and gristle in it until I I ate in a restaurant and found that there are various degrees of liver. So I think for frugal careful, yeah. Well with the orders today but we got by.

Jason Butler 7:17
and impacted that frugality or simple living or walk cautiousness have on you as a person do you think?

Don Fraser 7:27
It's always at the back of my mind, but I think it might have actually made me generous. I think people see me I can I can be overly generous at times and sometimes my family asked me to rein it to rein it back. So that could be that could be a reflection of not having a lot to now relatively, you know, well off by I don't know how you measure that but I feel like And fortunate and yeah, if I if I can, if I could give people things that give them a leg up including my family best friends as well or from going away and one of my rugby trips, you know don't don't mind just helping out those that aren't as fortunate as myself but not No, not in an obvious way is that that's just not very pleasant is it?

Jason Butler 8:28
So you can see the difference between kind of frugality and that anchored possibly in you a kind of a base level of understanding of existence but you realize that monies can make things a bit easier by the sounds of things and you'd like to share that with people to to get to that same feeling right?

Don Fraser 8:48
Well, that's that's true where possible, but you've got to be careful not step over any any lines and and one one thing is very relevant in my life. Because one of my good friends, Terry, but as a school we've gotten very, very well. Sort of 11 12 13 his parents got divorced and meant him relocating to the northeast of England, but we always we always kept in touch. And he went into education and became a teacher at what was then a Polytechnic and there's now a university. And during his adult life, he he married and divorced a couple of times, and I, I didn't, and I live in South East of England, I worked in finance and finance, boons, and property prices boons. And it's quite an object lesson that talent aside, his life and my life whilst contemporaneous, we've ended up in very, very difficult different financial circumstances, purely down to luck and geography and an accident because we on a talent level we had equal talents. We were equally gregarious. But through, you know, tricks of fate and circumstance, I ended up in a booming economic profession. And he didn't and house prices in the southeast rocketed and house prices in the northeast didn't. And that teaches you lessons as well that you think sometimes you're very talented, or very skilled, but often it can. It can be luck and circumstance, which good and good and bad, which can give you different trajectory trajectories in life.

Jason Butler 10:55
Just because someone is in a less financial situation than someone else does. mean that is stupid and it doesn't mean the person who's made it is super smart yeah I understand but nevertheless but nevertheless you know choices and non choices and decisions do have an impact can can can make an impact. So, so there is some some degree of agency and control Yeah. Okay. So he went to grammar school then so you must have must have been pretty bright in those days because the past 11 Plus you it was it was not easy was it?

Don Fraser 11:28
It wasn't easy, but again, parents the houses full of books, studying was important going to school and not bunking off was was very important. Again, quite strict parental environment, the army regime, you know, I had to make my bed every morning before I left the house. I literally couldn't leave the house unless the bed was made. I couldn't go to school without cleaning my shoes. I wasn't allowed out of the house with scuffed, scuff shoes back in the day and you know, everything I was wearing had to be ironed and pressed and clean. Because that was just the way the household was was run. You just had to leave the house I representing the house so there's a lot of order and structure. And I wasn't allowed to go out and play at weekends unless I've done a house work and any domestic jobs helping them with a car or say cutting the grass those those had to be done before I was allowed it when I was in Harish is to go and see Ipswich Town football club back in the back in the glory days which is exciting and the same when I moved some Tobin's I then followed spurs. But even then, in my late teens, no You can't go off to White Hart Lane and unless you've done the domestic chops, it was a reward based culture rather than it's just a freedom thing. So yeah, kind of learn things like that, that you need to deserve what you've got and then mixed pleasure more rewarding.

Jason Butler 13:23
So that's interesting. So those early childhood experiences of discipline structure and hard work and reward. How do you think that influenced your attitudes towards money as you were growing up? I mean, did you and also did you do a job while you were at grammar school? Did you do any kind of side jobs on the ground or a paper round or?

Don Fraser 13:42
Yeah, as I did both of those things actually just on on the side to keep me both fit and active jobs also worked on a street market instant organism on a Saturday which meant get out for four in the morning and not finishing. By Thomas wind up by at seven o'clock at night, but it's very, very rewarding dealing with the public. Because of I think my school days I was never routed anywhere for long because the army constantly uproots you and moves you. And what it means is you have to instill something in you that when you're arriving at new schools all the time you are the new boy. And you have to make friends and and influence people on day one, or else you just get left and lost in a in a corner. So I think that's made me build life skills of communication and over gregariousness, purely because that was a survival skill when you're a new child at school. And I think there's one other thing this is all reflections on life because they are me and two degree Trinity house when large Sort of governmental structures. My first job was in NatWest bank. And then it led to the civil service. And then it led to working with major insurance companies. So, up until capital, I've always been employed very large national scale organizations where there is hierarchy structure and to it to degree up until late JOB, JOB security, and I think that was perhaps a a part of child's childhood being brought up as an army child. Who knows.

Jason Butler 15:44
So, do you went through school? Were you a saver when you were a schoolboy or did you earn the money and just spend it under this sort of work hard and enjoy it thing.

Don Fraser 15:55
I save to specific things. I knew if I If I wanted, you know, a Tottenham season ticket for example, joining the supporters club always had many goals and I would save for those goals and my first car, which I remember is a funky v a Ford, Zephyr with fins at the back and I couldn't even fill it up in the first petrol station when it ran out of petrol because I didn't know where the petrol cap was in the chapter, the petrol station had to tell me that the number plate and the back flip down and hidden behind but that was a specific goal. And I thought, right I need I need to work and save to to achieve that. And then when I've done that, then I started to save for another specific VA then

Jason Butler 16:49
that was that was like a sort of big Mercedes. I mean, I see guys massive like a Mercedes. I mean, how did you how did you get enough money to give her that you were still one I think

Don Fraser 16:58
it was, I think was a clump I was about 17 or 18 and I didn't own it for long because it used more oil than a track cassette in it and Oh Happy Days

Jason Butler 17:12
most of the listeners won't know what it is but just do a Google search for what eight track cassette is okay. A track is like a kinda like a like a reel to reel cassette but it was had amazing sound and he was someone if you have one of those anyway, we digress. So yeah. So did you go to university or did you go straight into the workplace?

Don Fraser 17:29
I went straight to work. I was probably I think I was a little bit immature. When I left school at 18. I really enjoyed school instance opens and I just fretted about and remember one day my mother saying right? You can't make her back for forever. You've got to go and get a job. So just looked in the local papers or job NatWest bank, applied for it. Got it and and that was an that was that. So it was awesome. I had no sense of career direction. I was a bit listless, I was quite happy go lucky. And then I got to my mid 20s and realized that I thought, you know what I should really go to university, but there's only one I wanted to go to. And that was Cambridge and I wanted to read English. So I did apply and I got a place. And you could get grants then. So it was all free. So it was all fully fully paid for. And I had met a young lady at the time that I was I was in a relationship. She's now my wife of 40 years, and we went out to dinner one night, and she basically said, Well, you've got a choice to make because it's either me or Cambridge, but, you know, I'm not going to be a partner to what was then a mature student at the age of 20. Five and sit around for four years while you you role play rugby and get drunk. So I made the right career decision and chose her. So didn't didn't go having despite having a place where there are no regrets. Okay, because I won. I won that bargain because you know, Don and I 40 years later still happily married. Hmm.

Jason Butler 19:27
Well, I mean, and you can go to Cambridge anytime, right. So, you so you met your wife that you so your mid 20s, you were working at NatWest bank you here to make this you've met the love of your life you made the decision that she was a big part of your future. Tell us when you had you will be on this effort and you probably own other cars then. So what were you doing you earning very good money or was it very modest or what were you like them where you had you did you accumulate debt or had you bought a house? Where were you when you met your wife? What was your kind of financial situation your lifestyle like

Don Fraser 19:59
yeah, I didn't stay at NatWest long after I left school because I realized just that that type of environment wasn't for me. So then I started to work up in up in London for the civil service data processing role of which I knew nothing nothing about but it was it was interesting working in London and I was getting paid more and I quite liked commuting. But Diane knew that my she perceive my talents are greater than my my job. So she read using her skills she lined up with a friend of hers and took us out to dinner in their North London very palatial home. And after dinner, the husband took me into his you know, cigar room and had a chat about me and my career. I had no idea that this is all being set up. And he said, Well, I think I know exactly what career you should move into. And he told me about and I'll say yes and sounds good. And it was he set me up with a friend of his who work for Imperial life of Canada, which is a direct sales organization back then based in Wembley, and within four weeks, I was I was then working for them in direct sales, which is basically selling insurance to friends family and their friends and, and family, and it was a total career change, but I took to like a duck to water. And it was it was all it was all pre pre planned. And, and that was a beginning that was in back 79 1979 Margaret Thatcher was just becoming Prime Minister. I'm changing the whole face of finance and investment and savings. And that was that was the start so I've been in insurance and financial services now for just over 40 years.

Jason Butler 22:16
So that was fortuitous your your wife sort of engineered an introduction you've got a friend introduced to you started out and so was that self employed role you only got paid what you sold or was there a wage? I mean,

Don Fraser 22:26
yeah, you know, you you got a values the thing is bizarre when you look back at it was advanced commission. So, you know, if my own exam for 12,000 pounds a year and 1000 pounds a month, then in effect, it was a loan from the business, the company and you had to earn that amount of commission before you earn anything over and above it.

Jason Butler 22:53
So they gave you an advance they gave you sort of an amount of regular amount, but it was multis and you had to own this cover that before you could earn any more yes yeah and how successful Did you really get going with this very quickly did you earn more than your basic amount they were paying you to do Did you stole my head? Yeah,

Don Fraser 23:08
I did. I did quite well and we were able to afford our our first property together is a house conversion I think we're living in in the attic, but it was in North London winchmore Hill, which is very nice area near where my, my wife Diane lived at the time. And that was it. I was prepared to work hard, be diligent. This is all pre regulation, pre examination time, this is purely a sales skills role. But I did it for just under two years, and then I got a headhunter call, and I'm exhausted. I want to be a broker consultant. And I didn't know what that was, and many of your listeners might not know what that was, but it meant working for A major insurance company. And I said, Well, what does that entail? And they said, Well, you get pension, you get life insurance, you get a company car. So Well, that didn't take a lot of convincing. So I then joined, what was then roll life. And each Charing Cross Station became a broker consultant for them that then led to commercial union.

Jason Butler 24:31
Well, before you carry on, yeah, so so you bought this house and all that, how did you get the money to give us a deposit? Was that just from earnings? Was that inheritance? Was that winning on the on the polls because a lot of people will be wondering how you did that a young age early early in your commission base career?

Don Fraser 24:47
Yeah, it was commission based. I think we'd my wife and I had just accrued and we're talking modest amounts of savings, but at the time, I had to go to My bank I remember in instant opens and had to be interviewed by the bank manager for my mortgage says none of this online stuff they had to judge me as a as a credible borrower of their money and and you know had prospects and within this a decent soul so that's that's how mortgages were obtained in in the late 70s they weren't just given out willy nilly so

Jason Butler 25:29
you obviously did sound right because they gave you the money right?

Don Fraser 25:32
Yeah, right, properly dressed very well and spoke nicely and smiled a lot and said thank you, but we ever everything and this is this is another part of my life learning every time we moved home and we did move home several times. We backed ourselves and we're confident enough to say, right, we've got to make a decent move and stretch to the You know every sinew to get off our fingernails on to the next level. And if it all goes wrong, well, we've got each other. And if it all goes right, then we're making the right, the right progress. So that was our that was our few early doors, actually.

Jason Butler 26:16
But the key thing there, regardless of the economic situation, or the cost of housing is that you had aligned values about what was important. And you also thought about what's the worst that can happen. So you're already running forwards. And that's a very important thing for young people who might be listening to take away is that whatever situation if you're in a relationship, be aligned about what it is you're trying to do, and both own The downside as well. So you can get through it. There's no repercussion. So that was good. So you worked at Royal Life, and then you went on after a few years. You had a house or a couple of houses you in winchmore Hill, and then you went to a commercial union after that, is that right?

Don Fraser 26:54
Yeah, we're all life led to another phone call commercial union was setting up They're broke consultancy. It was all new for them. And they had a lovely office in Palmetto playschool. Sean Burke house, which was no Gwyn lived in. He, you know, are still young are still in London and I was now working out of an office in outmail in the West End, it was fantastic. But good. I'll see you at the time they hadn't ever done make a drama out of a crisis, I remember But fundamentally, they they could not they just hadn't got the setup so that they imploded very, very quickly. And ultimately, that led to a friend telling me that that just come from an interview at Scottish amicable in Curzon street in the West End of London, but he decided to take a job with Scottish equitable and wasn't wasn't going to take it. So he said, Give this chap a call and you can have the job But I've just turned down, which shot cheekily did, and the same afternoon went and met the branch manager at Scottish amicable and was offered the was offered a job. And we're now in the yuppie era of the early 80s. And it was in London at the time it was it was crazy, wild west, boom, boom time. It was it was very, very positive, very vibrant. And, you know, people were the yuppies, young urban professionals. And it was all it was all a lot of fun.

Jason Butler 28:42
And what was your lifestyle like? Because one of the things that obviously I've noticed over all the interviews I've done is that sometimes people get sucked into spending money that they don't really mean to spend to keep up with their peers, their colleagues and so on. How were you doing on the family budget side I was with Diane the one controlling all the purse strings or Were you super budgeters? Or did you just get the only so much money? It didn't matter? I mean, how are we? How are you coping day to day?

Don Fraser 29:07
Money is always relative I'm never quite sure how much other people earned there's a lot of competition between the major insurance companies and all their broker consultants and you hear some real extreme stories of how much people were earning. I was earning enough for us and we started off family and in London we had a two daughters before we moved out to Hampshire for our for our third daughter. It was okay. We were given company cars and they were changed every three years you got bonus for working hard and it was a meritocracy. So the people that did better got got paid more there's recognition you've got taken up to Scotland or abroad firm for trips. So all it all seems On a risk and reward balance it was it seemed fun and again I had an aptitude for it. So we yes we we've moved a couple of times by then but we just aren't able to do forecasting which is sit down with my this is probably pre Excel spreadsheets but paper and pencil and just work out what my likely earnings we're going to be trying to live within basic salary and bonuses always deemed the bonus because it's so thick all that you didn't ever calculate that in that was just our buffer. And we just yeah, we just kept moving moving home to nicer properties, you know, from a roof to terrorist hangers to a semi detached to a detached house. Just the normal stepping statements but none of them were what you'd call palatial they were just nice family homes in North North London suburb so it just seemed natural does everyone around me was doing something similar although in central London you could see where the excesses were I think some of my colleagues who are more senior than me were were driving very nice. Porsche Porsche was a particular favorite of some my colleagues but i'll come on to cars later on at that time, I wasn't a car person it was more just earn earn enough and do a good job and come home, you know, a decent time of evening and work work hard and keep your nose clean and just progress your career as well as your your family life as well.

Jason Butler 31:57
So okay, so you you weren't really high octane lifestyle ever you weren't partying all the time and, and what have you, you, you, you you were putting most of your earnings into the family home It sounds to me like

Don Fraser 32:14
yeah probably the largest expense I had at the time was a mortgage which is not untypical for for anyone I guess. But there's a lot of hedonism in the 80s and I was observing it and go, you know, there's lots of parties and there's lots of riotous nights. But I was an observer participant rather than the host of these of these things not I just don't like wasting money. Now I'll come on to tell you how I have wasted money but that time I just think No, that's you know, you spend a lot of money to get hangover and I didn't see that was a good balance of opportunity.

Jason Butler 33:00
So you you you now you got a family you'd moved a few times you sort of started to you've got on your Scottish amicable tell us them what happened. Tell us the next stage.

Don Fraser 33:09
I I started getting posted notes saying that someone had called me left the number someone called me left a number. And I just saw Well, I don't know who that is. I'll leave it and then I got sort of third or fourth. very persistent. Missed Paul. And it was from a Scottish gentleman from an accountancy based firm. Panel Kurt Forster hadn't heard literally never heard of, and I phoned up the Chartered Accountants body and said, You know, I'm getting phone calls from this company. Are they any good? And they said, well, they're the sixth largest in the UK and they're in a national firm. So my ears pricked up. Anyway, it was the someone wanting to offer me a job as an independent financial advisor. And this was in 1990. So I took the next call followed it up. The gentleman came down from London to London from Edinburgh to meet me. And he said he needed to set up the London southeast region of the financial planning element of the accountancy practice. And he'd asked all the key insurance company people he knew, you know, who's who's, who's the name in London, and whether he was flattering me or not, he said, my name kept coming up. So he said, what my earning and I told him, he said, Well, you know, increase that by a sizable margin. So he showed me the office space and it was a dingy corner office in in Holborn and had dead plants lots of yellow paper on the window sills little bit larger Mary Celeste and said that's it and I said, Well, where's my Pa? Where's my staff? And he said, Well, that's for you to sort out and he said, didn't you have a, an assistant? Scottish amicable? And I said, Well, yes. And he said all phoned her up and do I've just done off for some more money and she'll come, which is true. She did. And I started building it from literally scratch. No, I've never been what was an odd not even she was called an IFA at the time. But I was I was a financial advisor. I think the new rules It all started coming in and the regulations and FINRA and exams and qualifications and I was there for 10 years and built up a I guess a successful Business Enterprise became the director of the financial planning firm which which did really really well and, and really learn how to how to independently give advice to what was then clients of the accountancy practice. So it was a step up in, in caliber, the type of people I was meeting successful entrepreneurs, business people, creatives, and people that obviously needed a major accountancy firm to handle their affairs meant that they were already over certain caliber. So it was a big momentum.

Jason Butler 36:42
And how do you how did working with those clients affect your own relationship with money and how you use money over that 10 year period because that was a big wake up call as well wasn't it for you? You know, you were you were responsible for the business unit. You are meeting all these interesting class you're actually advising people

Don Fraser 36:58
yeah. So... here's the thing that other have observed that people think you have to be mature and gray hair and have lots of wisdom in order to do things is patiently not not true because I was still relatively young and advising people twice my age who had wealth, well beyond my own personal capacity, and in in which they gave complete trust, in my opinion, and in my advice. And that reminded me have when when a honeymooned in California in 1979, so I got married and came into financial services in the same year, I actually got food poisoning seriously and had to go to I was transferred to two hospitals because the first one couldn't cope with my symptoms. And I was really really unwell and my doctor took the time like a surf Dude, you know long blonde hair wearing jeans just threw on a white coat. But to me he was the Savior. I didn't care how he looked or how young he was, he could actually heal me which which he in medicine did in short order. And that taught me a big life lesson as well is that as long as someone can help you, and has the ability and expertise that age is an irrelevance, as is how they how they look. Although in financial services, there is perceived wisdom that you have to be mature to know things and have shared experiences and you have to dress in a certain way and wear a uniform because people's expectations are that you know, if you're dealing with their money, you've got to you've got to look as if you've got some yourself and you wear a decent suit and have nice ties and shoes, but it is Anyone who's got the capacity, the wisdom, the knowledge, and the people skills, and who really cares for what they're saying and doing that the client has has that, you know, the world's their oyster, because people will, you're the expert in the room, they've come to you for advice, because you're the expert, they might be great at what they do. They might have run a very successful telecoms business of which you know, nothing. But always bear in mind, they're in the room with you, because they don't know what you know.

Jason Butler 39:36
So the takeaway there for people in relation to their careers were listening. Being young actually can be an advantage because perhaps you're working harder to learn stuff. You've got the current knowledge, you've learned from older people, your age isn't an impediment. You know, you just got to because it's relative to your experience and knowledge, right? So if you if you're 30, and you've got 10 years experience in a specific area of deep expertise, then don't feel inadequate. That you're working or helping or delivering the service to people much older than you

Don Fraser 40:05
well if you look at some of these TV programs 24 hours in a&e look at the average age of the men and women in a you know, they're not 40 5060 years old they're much younger than that. But people are entrusting their lives in a very precarious situation and you I don't think if you're lying there on a on the stretcher in a covered in blood with broken bones you're really interested in well which University did you go to? What degree Did you get and how old are you? It's irrelevant. It's Can you help me?

Jason Butler 40:47
So by the time you'd finish this, you've done 10 years this the financial advice on this accountancy firm, what was your lifestyle likened and did you still have a very frugal attitude to money or will you wish had you released had You release the spending gates more and more. You live in a big palatial house. I mean, what was your lifestyle like back then?

Don Fraser 41:06
None of our houses have been palatial. We had this thing that always buy the worst house in the best area. Yeah. And we've always followed that. No, never buy the best house in a bad area. An area we knew was very important. Where where I used to live in some torrents are very nice. winchmore Hill was very nice. And we chose Harpenden because it's a beautiful area and somewhere lovely to bring up a family as it still is. But quite literally the house we're living in, in in the road we live in is probably the the smallest house in our our road. But it is very important for location and B we've got everything right and the facts that All the other houses have been knocked down and built and redeveloped and bought by cash buyers from the city is doing the world good because all the house values in the in the street go up by other people developing their their homes, it elevates the entire area.

Jason Butler 42:20
So also if you have a property downturn, which we do get from time to time, early 90s, possibly now Who knows? But when you get a property downturn and if you do need to sell for whatever reason, you know, you can always sell the property even if it's a bit less of a price because there's always demand for it. Right?

Don Fraser 42:35
Exactly. Yeah, we're surrounded by good schools good transport. Yeah. Parks, you know, just everything so that was our that was our views. So we stretched to a certain limit to bring up our children well and live a four bedroom detached house. It's very, it's very pleasant. It's near the station parks and everything but we once we go What we needed we then stopped and said okay, this is this is our final our final home we moved here in literally 91 which was the last property recession. So we've been here quite quite a while and probably plan to stay here now so we could have done one or two more moves to the bigger better houses but I've gone through a couple of things which made me realize that keeping up with the Joneses is a complete waste of time and, and having the big companies I work for these two nice the company cars which I didn't need because I walked to the station and commute but we had our cars replaced every three years. And one of my neighbors said Oh, don't you change your car again? Where's your ashtray full, you know? Because because he couldn't as a retired man himself, he couldn't understand why every three years as this beautiful new you know German car and my driveway and it's just that that was that was the way it worked. So from the outside, everything looks, you know, palatial and ridiculous but it was just what companies did at the time. And eventually I gave up with the cars and just took the power of sub spheres. This was money. But I did fall. Here's my fall from grace. Part of our social circle rolled into classic cars, and I didn't have a classic car. So I went to a classic car event one day and with peer pressure, I made an offer on a tvr server, which is one of the fastest streetcars is va 450 brake horsepower. It was a rocket on on wheels, but having bought it, it Firstly, it scared the death out of me when I drove it. You could only drove it. Drive on very few occasions because it didn't like the wet or the cold or the wind or anything like that. So became an expensive lump of metal on my driveway. So I've got rid of that. And lo and behold, replaced it with a Maserati can be a courser, which was another three MONEY MONEY pit. So overall, in in my, I think early 50s, I went through my I call it my male menno Porsche moment, and and bought two really fast and stupid cars, which are now live to regret because I've wasted an awful lot of money on buying them, selling them and keeping them on the road.

Jason Butler 45:46
To do that, though, was a peer pressure.

Don Fraser 45:48
It was it was totally peer pressure and affluence. You know, I had I had the money I had spare capacity, and I think I rewarded myself for you. His and years of hard work and just fell into it into a trap and it's a trap I recognize so when clients that I deal with and have dealt with for years come into money and they talk about you know, buying this and buying that and buying the other and I have a regime for them which would you like to share? Yeah, yeah. Okay. So if anyone sells a business or inherits a lot of money or gets lucky and wins the lottery, then and anyone listening is in a position to advise these people this is this is what are now say, when they've got their wish lists of how they're going to spend. I say okay, let's write it all down on a on a sheet of paper that you want to, you know you want to buy matching isn't herb, a black one and a white one Range Rovers want to buy holiday home in Turkey, you want to buy a cottage in suffer, you know, you want to do this, you want to do that. So write this, write it all down. So if I give it to me, I'm going to put it in an envelope. And you're not going to do any of this for a year. And then in 12 months time, any of the things that are on this list that you still want to do, you can do. But my bet is in 12 months time, you won't want to do most of the things that are on this list. Now, some playful, some say it's more mental, I'll do what I want, but at least I, at least I try. And people are making emotional decisions in an emotional state. If you sell your business, it's emotional. If you retire, it's emotional. You know, if you win the lottery, it's emotional. And making big money decisions in an emotional state. Is is, I would say foolish. So I want them to call their heels and just get used Their new life and it is true that if they open the envelope 12 months later most of them go What on earth were we thinking about? But I didn't have that break. I didn't have that buffer or circuit breaker and I really encourage people and and your listeners to introduce circuit breakers into big decisions give yourself a pause you know never buy a holiday home when you're on holiday. If you're on the bar holiday home, go go when the resort or the area's closed and this howling gales windy and everything shuts it up. Yeah, because that that's a reality. Yeah, if you're on holiday, you're in a euphoric mood. It's, it's lovely, that is not the time to commit to buying another property. So I think good financial planners do act as a sounding board second opinions and circuit breakers. Preventing clients from making stupid decisions. So my cars were very stupid decisions which I, which I regret, they lost me money from the minute I bought them. And it was just really peer pressure to look good. And yeah, it was a big vanity project.

Jason Butler 49:22
Yeah, you got sucked into the environment and the environment and your peers do have an impact that they here's the thing. So what you're saying is absolutely fantastic. The circuit breaker concept. I love it. I think I've heard you mentioned this before once I think to me, actually. And it is such a fantastic concept. But holding yourself to account is hard, isn't it? So that's why whether it's a friend, a financial advisor, you know your partner, or whatever money coach whoever but someone who can sort of just ask you hang on to me, is this what you really want? I mean, there's no shaming people what making decisions which turn out to be bad or not optimum or that they don't, you know, they they wish to have If they as long as they've had time to think it through, and do it with their eyes open, isn't it? I mean, everyone has the right to to sweat, waste their money on stuff that they wish they hadn't as long as they don't rush into it, right?

Don Fraser 50:11
Yeah, I just think that if you can find it, this this is why it really is difficult. Sometimes your friends are your friends for a reason. And one of the reasons is that don't to hurt you or be rude to you. And for men in particular, I think it's hard for men to really open up to to other men the way that women can and bear their soul. So it can be quite a lonely experience. You think well, bank managers then Is this my accountant won't understand. I haven't seen my solicitor in 20 years. I'm not religious, so I haven't got a minister I can talk to. And my wife will tell me no from the get go or whatever. And he think well, who who have I got? Who will actually listen to why I want to do this thing in a non judgmental, objective manner. And I think that's a fantastic role for a family financial planner is there are very few people that will that will listen with impartiality and give you good guidance about why you're making the decision. And is it a good decision or a bad decision to help inform the decision? So I think a lot of people make big money decisions because they have no one else to discuss it with. And just go ahead with a gung ho and think we'll be all right in the night and quite often it is and sometimes it isn't. That's fantastic.

Jason Butler 51:53
Well done. Obviously. I could speak to you for hours. As we sort of close I mean, it's been fantastic. Just Just to Hear the whole circuit breaker concept and then particularly the thing about men being more vulnerable to not opening up and being honest and having someone to talk to it's worth, it's worth just listening to those points but also, I love your, your honesty and your openness. And some of those early lessons were obviously clearly there. And the point you make about talent versus black and stuff, but everyone sort of come to a close is there is there anything else you want to share that you know, you think, you know, your sort of golden nuggets or that you know, now that you wish you'd known when you were 20 you want to leave people with?

Don Fraser 52:35
At Capital and through my mentoring, and you and I were both involved with Coventry University, you see lots of young, talented people who have such a fantastic opportunity ahead of them and they they my my career was a series of ladders and Climbing and clambering my way slowly to what you know, get getting near to a summit of something. But I see that young talented people can can get there much, much faster because the the networks are available, the qualifications, the learning, and the capacity that are our profession needs to be a knowledge profession because we we, the financial advisors own the knowledge, we own the sources, but the internet is the source name. And it just gives confusion, and indecision because choices are so, so immense. And I think it's becoming a true relationship based business with empathy, understanding, listening, compassion, because that there isn't a money decision that doesn't involve an emotional decision. And I think back in the day, we just solved the money issue. And we didn't ever delve into the emotional side of things. And I can see that completely flipping that money in emotion are interlinked, but it's the emotion that is the driving force. And for anyone practicing nowadays, connect at the emotional level and everything else will, will fit in behind it because there's there's a reason why people want to spend or save or move or buy cars or spend foolishly or save wisely. There's, there's a reason and once you uncover what, what that emotional driving force is, then you really build a close partnership with that client, which should be for life and one of mutual respect for each other as well. So thanks. That's my guiding light.

Jason Butler 54:55
Yeah, and all the people most of the people listening here if they don't have listening advisor or they've never worked with iron or they've worked with a salesperson before who's not really an advisor, then perhaps that's something to bear in mind if they do think they need some help or earning a high income started has some success to to bear that in mind when they're thinking about work. So that's, that's great. Well done. You've been an absolute star. Thank you very much for your time today. It's great, greatly appreciated. I think I could probably do 10 episodes with you. But I do hope I can have you back on the show. And we can explore and unpack some of these issues in a bit more detail. But you've been a star. Thank you for your time.

Don Fraser 55:33
No pleasure. Thank you very much, Jason.

Jason Butler 55:39
Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me, Jason Butler. If you'd like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai