40. Kathryn Knowles Builds Solid Financial Foundations To Live Her Dream

Listen to this Real Money Stories episode on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Stitcher or Podbean by clicking the links and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

This week I speak to Kathryn Knowles who combines the roles of business owner, insurance expert, mum, wife, fitness enthusiast and environmentalist.

A modest upbringing taught Kathryn the importance of minimising debt, working hard, saving and spending in line with her values and priorities.

Buying her first house while still at university led to Kathryn, her husband and three young children eventually living in their dream home, mortgage-free, by the time they were 34.

Kathryn and her husband seized the opportunity to buy the company that employed them, putting Kathryn's PHD in business and accounting to good use. They have developed the business Cura to be a leading specialist in the field of UK personal protection insurance.  

As Kathryn says, “You've got to have that vision of what you want” before you can go about achieving it. Then you have to align your spending with your vision. 

It worked for Kathryn, and it can work for you.    

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. Real Money Stories is the only UK podcast which shares personal money stories of everyday people. So their insights can help you to be better with money. My name is Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money, journey, or world on the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Hello, and thanks for joining us on another edition of real money stories, the weekly podcast where we talk to people from a wide range of backgrounds about their money journey, and their relationship with money. And today I'm joined by Kathryn Knowles. Hi, thanks very much. rejoin us Now, before we get into your your backstory, do you want to just tell everyone what you do now?

Kathryn Knowles 1:08
Well, right now I sit generally in a sort of rocking position while I'm trying to teach three children and then try and work at the same time. But I'm the Managing Director of Cura financial services and we have a specialist protection and insurance broker. And so that's what I do. So I'm very much a mix. I am half business owner, and I am half mum. And that's how we've got managed to split up between us, which is lovely,

Jason Butler 1:35
because it was the term mum-trepreneur, I think is the term.

Kathryn Knowles 1:39
yeah.

Jason Butler 1:43
Let's go back now. You tell us tell us, you know, take us back to your childhood. You know what was happening here when you were very young and you're sort of your early money, memories and how the family was?

Kathryn Knowles 1:55
Yeah, I was gonna say this, maybe when I was preparing it for the podcast and just like him In a few different thoughts about my money journey and all this kind of thing, it took me aback and I think about my first memory. And it got me a bit sentimental. So I, my first memory the first time I've ever came to my mind was my grandparents on my grandma john Rendon. And every time we visit there and all my grandpa, both sets of grandparents like an hour and a half away, so it's always a big car journey to get to them, especially in the north, where it's not just a straight roads, but and we'd get there and every time but have saved up all of their coffers for me in a jar of all the ones and two peas. And, you know, I'd go in and I'd be so excited to be like how much money have I got, and I just sit on the floor, tip it all out and I'd counted up. And as I started got a bit older, you know, my parents made me realize just how much it meant to them that they were doing that because obviously, they were so happy to make me happy. But those two pieces, one piece really added up for them. They really didn't have much money. And my other grandparents also Weren't you know, I don't come from a rich background. And you know, they didn't have lots and lots of money, but they had more than my grandma john donne They would maybe give me maybe a couple of pounds of five pound notes, you know, some higher amounts of pocket money when I got there, which was lovely. And there's part of me when I was very young, obviously that be like, Oh, I'm getting loads of money from them, you know, I'm not getting much from the other ones. But it struck me how my very first movie The very first thing that came to mind was the one piece in the two piece it wasn't the pounds of the notes from the other set of grandparents it was that that kind of the game of it in a sense making it into a bit of a something a play thing for me to sort of like obviously helped my maths and stuff like that and accounting and everything. And you know, it just it struck me how it was lovely that that was the memory it wasn't how much money I was getting. It was the the family and the sunlight the time to say it, you know, stuff like how they, how they really put me first rather than their own monetary needs, which was which was lovely.

Jason Butler 3:53
So, that lesson then of it wasn't actually how much someone had given you. It was how much it meant in terms of energy. Feeling you out of their situation? That's interesting. So it's a classic phenomena as children always see the coins are worth more than notes. Yeah.

Kathryn Knowles 4:09
Exactly. Okay.

Jason Butler 4:10
And and what was the family situation like growing up? You mentioned you didn't come from a rich family, but you're talking about finances, but you know, how, what the conversation where the conversations about money do and how were you at school and stuff.

Kathryn Knowles 4:24
And so so like when it came to money in our family and everything, and we say we weren't rich, but we were we were comfortable. We certainly weren't, you know, we hired our house. My parents had a mortgage, we had a three bedroom house. And you know, my dad was a sergeant in the police force to this for 30 years and more. And my mom was a part time worker so that she could obviously look up to me in my system, or she works in the library for many, many years. And they're absolutely fine, but I always knew who I was. My mom got extremely cautious with money that does definitely come to me as well. So And I've often thought with the opinion eat, don't spend money that you don't have. So you know, like you don't, I mean, you can have a credit card, but you make sure that is paid off, you know, every month that is not something that you're just going to mess about with. And you're just you're not going to make, you know, random decisions. But I had a very strange upbringing in the fact that my dad is very, very impulsive and he will just buy something on a whim. And that's it. And my mom is the complete opposite so I'm not kidding. They lived in their property for 30 years and and it took them 20 years to decide and agree on changing their kitchen units. And yeah, it honestly, it was time to end it was just like oh my word and we'll be there all the time since then, but it is okay if you want to do it and they were just so like oming and arming all the time and it was like right, okay, I think it's a part of the house have been maybe we wallpaper and stuff like that before. So in the kitchen, which was the big buy. There's quite a lot of money goes into that. And it took them a long, long time to get there. I'm not like that. I think I'm a happy medium. Between the two of them, I can make a decision be quite sensible with it as well. And so obviously, we came from that, but you know, it was a thing of my mum and dad, you know, they didn't, you know, they didn't go out to the pubs, you know that, you know, they didn't. And we didn't go off like on, you know, lots and lots of fancy holidays, we would make sure they would, what they would do is that their thing every single year, is every year to make sure that they said they made a conscious decision not to do things like going out with friends, and socializing lots and lots of mass because they wanted to save their money to make sure that we all had a holiday every year. And so that was their kind of thing is that they would do that. And as I got older, I realized that you know, those times that my mom wouldn't eat because she would be making sure that my sister had food. And you know, I think she said at one point, they're in their bank account, they literally had three pound to their name, you know, and they had to try and feed us for a week and that kind of money. And so, so not easy, and but as I say, not easy, but I always think it's very important. Think about the fact that but we did have a comfy home you know we had a roof over our head we were warm we were safe you know that's that's very very important. And when it comes to school I can't remember actually in all fairness that much about learning about money in school but I think that's pretty much standard from that school 20 years ago now to just any to even now I don't think I would have to say that there was a brilliant money and bank learning session for my eight year old recently that I went to at his school and I do really think I'm quite passionate about bringing that more into the into the school systems but yeah, when I was growing up there wasn't really anything about talking about it. My parents do not do investments that are so cautious of investments or anything like that. It's all about saving your money and and just not taking any form of risk at all. That's that's how I was brought up.

Jason Butler 7:48
So as you grew up, did you when you were at school, say as a you know, secondary school did you do a sort of part time job or anything for money or did you work your day jobs feed Mom and Dad You got paid for how to do Did you First start from doing you know, the time and money thing.

Kathryn Knowles 8:03
Okay, so I'll probably say that that's probably more college age for me because I'm not going to go into long backstory. But when I do have a health condition and when it really kicks in when I was a teenager, and meant that I couldn't do a lot of stuff, especially physically so I actually only went to school part time for a secondary school where they, it was very, very rare that I was there on a full day. And, and so the thought of a part time job just wasn't really happening at that point, so yeah, so like the little things around the house, maybe I would maybe get a little bit of pocket money for but it was certainly not sort of grand amounts of money or anything like that. But I started my first job was when I started college, I started to get a bit better. And I worked at boots on the pharmacy counter. And so I started doing that and it was nice, and I think with that and I have to say obviously being 17 that we all know exactly where that money went. So even though I've been brought up in a very, very, you know, careful lifestyle and everything like that it went on the clubs it absolutely went on the clubs it went on clothes I certainly didn't need or particularly once. But I think you know sometimes you at some point in your life you may be have to be a little bit lacks with you next with the money but you know you need to be able to blow off some steam a little bit and try doing a little bit of stuff that's crazy, maybe irreverent. You spend there Yeah, yeah, exactly. So that then you can look back on it and go, well really did that did I enjoy that that much obviously at the time immensely. So but then you start to grow up a bit. And I think that of having that focus of what you wanted to achieve in life, I was very fortunate to meet my husband at 17. And we very quickly knew that we want to be together obviously forever and have family house, stuff like that. And it just became very sort of focused forwards that we thought like, well if we want to do this, and then we want to maybe do maybe a bit of the hard slog at the beginning part of our life to then enjoy things a lot more later on. So became a lot more focused, especially at university time.

Jason Butler 10:05
So when you you met your husband, you say, oh, before before college. Okay. Okay. And when you met him this is interesting because well, we'll explore in a bit later but but when you come together as a as a life partner relationship, you're obviously sort of values are quite important, aren't they? You know, your common values? Did you? Did you have a similar view at that stage? I know you were still doing the clubs and buying clothes you didn't really need but yeah, you had that? Where did you know that? You both sort of had similar views about money and perhaps, you know, perhaps, when you decided to sort of buckle down and save a bit and to have this disgrace when you realize you're gonna stay together or?

Kathryn Knowles 10:45
Yeah, probably, I mean, I think as well Alan comes from family again, that isn't, you know, rich or anything. His parents had their own business. And so they were doing well they owned a secondhand shop in the local area, and they did well for themselves, but they certainly weren't earning, you know, money. or anything like that, you know, they were just earning a sensible amount. And I was it comes down to this a bit of a northern nest and all of us, I'm sure readers can hear by my accent, and readers even listeners. And basically, you know, you have to be careful, I think, you know, both sets of both of our parents have grown up in times where money was very tight, especially when they were initially growing up. And so you're talking either just sort of like at the end of the war, or just post war when things were still probably rationing and things like that. So that really stuck with them. Alan's parents, so to speak, difference my parents, so they would raise my parents were like, yeah, let's get money in it, save it and just never spend it ever, ever. Allen's powers very much. Like, let's get money and save it, oh, we've got this amount. Let's have a, let's just have a holiday, you know, and it was just, you know, it's just slightly different. But for me, and I think it was just, it was just quite naturally, everything about us were very, very much shared values, sort of like how you feel the respect that you would have for a partner the respect you have for family, the fact You want to achieve things in life that inset things in a sense, you know, not saying necessarily anything really grandiose, just that you have this kind of thing of like, well, this is what I want to achieve. I want to be able to look back and be proud of what I've done no matter what it is, and yeah, I'm not I'm not really sure how we've started first found out that we were aligned with money. So as I say, at first it was all about going to the clubs and concepts and different things.

Jason Butler 12:25
You got to do that, right. So when you went to uni, your husband didn't go to this or your future husband didn't go to the same university. You are you dude. Oh,

Kathryn Knowles 12:35
yeah. So he said- absolutely. Although I didn't listen. Yeah. And so now he, so we were at the time there was from Scarborough area, and Scarborough the University of home and Alan by background is very much an internet kind guy, kind of guy. So I mean, he just Same as me now as insurance but, and so there was an internet computing degree there, which was brilliant. I did my A Levels I went in and being very good at maths when I was younger I went into maths and further maths at a level decided that point I had voluntarily been put off maths and the local university and had a degree on business and sustainable business practices and I'm very much an environmental type person. So we both decided to stay local again it was a thing of do we take these student loans in a sense and waste them on lots of you know, stuff like food and accommodation and all this kind of stuff? Or do we stay near you know, UPS? You've got a lovely area that we live in. Do we stay at home with our parents? Yes, obviously it's nice to get away from that house you know, and home at some point, but stay at home be sensible. Try and save our money as best as we can. And look to building a future together and if we can make that work together then and locally, then that's suited us. Hmm. So you came through the uni experience with without much I'm putting aside any two phase or anything B, did you come out of that relatively intact and not much debt? Or did you come out with a bit of debt? We, we came up with a student loans. Yeah, absolutely. So we did come out with that, which was an idea for what we did within a few years or so is we actually ended up borrowing money off parents to pay our student loans off. And we then paid them back in chunks. And just because, as I say, my parents really dislike loans. So as soon as I had a student loan, they were absolutely on tenterhooks the entire time. But we were very fortunate to be in the position that we could do that. And it's, I think, you know, a lot of people that just leave the student I was there, which is absolutely fine. But for us, it actually, it was grating on us that we had that there and kind of overs and we just wanted them gone as soon as possible. So so so that works quite well for us. But Alan works throughout university as well. So he he's always worked since he was like 12 or 13. So he was working throughout the time, so he was brilliant in the income and everything and We were to stage where I was still at university when he started his work. So I had a, I had a few more years after him, I did my undergraduate, and then I did a PhD. And so for my undergraduate, and I was still there a year while he was out in the working world. So within that year or so, we started getting ready and we actually bought our first home. And we've been while you're still at uni, yeah. And so it's I was gonna say it's no it wasn't a massive house, but it was our house and it was the most gorgeous house ever. It was an N terrace, a one bedroom and terrace with a little garden on the front and the back and it was perfect for us, you know, so we didn't sort of think right we're gonna go for anything like major put some fantastically into debts or whatever, even though Yes, a mortgage is still quite a big debt feels a bit different than when it's a market you feel like you've taken out a loan

Jason Butler 15:50
well You're gonna have somewhere to live. So whether it's rent or buy, I mean, that's just a exactly,

Kathryn Knowles 15:55
but we've been married a few years before as well and we actually and I think a lot of people for 18 years. It sounds awful in it. And it wasn't a good idea. But we've been married for a while. And we still continue to live with parents just because we're very much of the opinion their parents are saying to us, stay with us, save up your money, don't waste it into rent and put it into it get the deposit

Jason Butler 16:13
that how you got the deposit then by stay living with the parents, right?

Kathryn Knowles 16:17
Yes, yes. So there was that there was Alan working. As I say, by that time as well, we were so determined on getting onto the property market and starting our own life that we just we stopped, like everything we just, it was a case of we just we didn't go out to the pubs anymore. And we pretty much didn't even really drink at home or anything wasn't something that was massively I think we'd really want ourselves out. Here, we had, we've had our moments. And, you know, we didn't do things like you know, we didn't have to have the latest gadgets and all this kind of stuff. And we'd see friends who were doing that and they were like often for their partner's Christmas presents. They'd be spending ridiculous amounts of money, hundreds of pounds at Christmas and then saying later on in the hour, I'm really struggling and all this kind of stuff and it will be a case of well, for us. It was a Because Well, we kind of have everything we need. So why don't we spend 20 quid on each other for Christmas, we don't need to do anything grandiose and it's just for now. And then in the future if we do so let's just say that's an interesting thing. So you said that you decided to spend sort of say 20 quid on each other and really enjoyed it. Whereas your friends and you were doing you were aligning your spending or not spending as the case may be with what was important to you as your friends were buying and spending whether it's right or wrong, but they were buying stuff that whether it was 200 pounds or 20 pounds and then they were what they were struggling financially. Yeah, they were really struggling and because it would be a case of that it kind of was somewhat of a become a bit of one upmanship between partners as to who could spend the most. And we're very much of the opinion is that it doesn't matter, you know, so, you know, it's my birthday next week. And it really doesn't bother me if I get something on us. I know one year and I absolutely loved it. Allen bought me a toilet in South Africa and think it was some meals for children for like a for however long it was again In South Africa, and it was both it was and it was just that to me was, that was the perfect gift because I just at the time, especially I didn't need anything, you know, we were just so happy and content and living. But there was there was just Yeah, I just think

Jason Butler 18:13
what's interesting there is, is again, just to make this point, you were really, really clear about what was important to you, that you were both aligned on that. And therefore, not socializing and not buying loads of gadgets and stuff wasn't a didn't feel a last year, it felt like the nest really important. You felt empowered. That was really why you were doing what you're doing. So you were really clear about what was important, right?

Kathryn Knowles 18:37
Absolutely. You know, we had this vision, but it was a case if we want a house and we want to pay off as much as that market as possible. So what we were also doing as well as we were overpaying every month as much as we could without her hitting early repayment charges per year. So we really, really focused on that the absolute goal was to just get the house and make sure that we owned it as quickly

Jason Butler 18:58
as we could. Why was that? Why were you so system overpaying what we would call a good debt, the mortgage.

Kathryn Knowles 19:03
No, no, no, I completely agree. excellencies now that I speak now tomorrow to financial advisors and everything and like, subsea protection insurance person, not for financial advice, and when I'm speaking to people now they just say, well, Marcus is actually pretty Alright, compared to other things, maybe do your money. And I'm like, no. And that's for my parents, I think so with my parents. It was really, my mom was absolutely determined. She was like, right, I want to have our house paid off. I think it was by the age of 40. And for whatever reason, it just meant so so much to her and they scrimped and they, you know, I mean, to the point of, I wouldn't want to scrimp as much as my woman does. I do like a piece of luxury. And, but they were just it was absolutely in their mindset to do that. And that really kicked him with me as well. And like, I know, Allen's parents, you know, even though they enjoyed, you know, life and probably spent more than my parents did, they were still you know, their goal was also let's get we want to make sure that we own this house. There's hours that no one can come along and say, well actually we're going to take that off you it is absolutely well in to Yellowstone,

Jason Butler 20:01
so you've paid off your parents then that that needing to get the mortgage paid was actually a sense of deep needed sense of security. Right? That's what it is. Because that's essentially where it comes from that feeling secure, because you own your castle, essentially. Right?

Kathryn Knowles 20:17
Absolutely. And my home is my safe place. It's a safe place for my children. You know, it's, you know, I would, it was just absolutely something that we really, really wanted to do. And we have had a couple of house moves since so we did make a couple of other decisions. So I started after I finished my PhD in 2010. I started working at that point. So I'll show you how to increase a house. So but even before that two years before, we've made the decision that we wanted to start a family. We've been together a long time at that point, and we looked at a property in the local area that we wanted to buy. It was one of those ones was built in 1935. And the people who first built it had lived in it ever since. Yeah, and it hadn't been updated.

You know, we have to put in heating we have to do all the electrics, you know, it was really the wallpaper. So you can just imagine real fixer upper. Yeah, it really was. So we've got a really nice house, but it was more expensive than our current house because of the position of where it was in the town. It was on the expensive road, in a sense. Nice. Yeah. And, and stuff, like the size of it and everything, but we've got a really good price for what it was because of all the work that needed doing. And, and we've made the decision to do that. But what we did at the same time, though, as well is because of the way again, and with help with parents and and our own savings, were able to put deposit on that house, and then also retain our original properties of vitalize. And which we did, yeah. Which was really, really good. And that worked for for many, many years. So we've got our new house in 2008 and then just type work in in 2010 more income coming in. And I saw our dream house which we're in now, our absolute dream house. And that was in 2013. Believe 2012 2013. So it's been 2013, two in five years in our middle home. So we sold that home and got our dream house. And again, though the entire goal was enough, so this was, again a bigger market than we've seen before. But the entire goal was just to pay it off as quickly as possible. So we just have repaired as much as we could, you know, whenever we just started whenever we could, anything that sort of like came away, it just automatically went if we if parents gave us some money for birthdays or anything, it kind of all we kept a little bit to treat ourselves to something but the rest of it was going into the savings. And we took the decision last year to sell it late. And we just felt, you know, speak especially now being very much into the finance world. We felt that maybe the buy to that for us, wasn't going to give us the achievements in later life that we had wanted and make us like a retirement fund and so excited At least and it meant that we actually have been able to pay off our mortgage on our current home. So he writes

Jason Butler 23:05
brilliant, and how does that make you feel? How does it make you feel having that mortgage completely paid off in your dream home?

Kathryn Knowles 23:12
I love it. I love it, we have to say we were kind of, you know, not pushy advice in any way whatsoever. But we were advised in a sense to not use that chunk of money to pay off the mortgage, but to invest it. And I completely saw the sense that was being said to me, but it was just, I just felt it like in my chest and it must still make no sense. Just that kind of, you know, I think my inbuilt fear from my mom of investments. And I was like, No, I can't put all that money. That significant chunk of money into an investment for me,

Jason Butler 23:43
was a definite wasn't it? Whereas investing, even though we know over 3040 years, you'll probably make more money. There's a big big hockey ride along the way, isn't it and you still got to keep painting. There's all these payments have been paid off.

Kathryn Knowles 23:54
Exactly. So the thing for me now is that like we both said, you know, I'm 34 got it. Yes, I'm 34 so Got a mortgage paid off at 34 on incredible house and it's, it's a nice house. And so you know, it wasn't the cheapest house in the world. And it's, that's that really does mean the world to us because it's lovely for me as well. And sorry for my innocence, my mental health, just know that this is mine, and no one can come in and take it away from me and my children, you know that I've got three young boys to just so that they always know that this is it's part of their, you know, part of their future as well as always, and it's always going to be here for them and there for them. It really is an amazing feeling.

Jason Butler 24:34
And again, it's in line with your values, your decisions are being driven by your values and what's important to you not what's important to other people or what you think other people think you should be doing. So I just want to just before we move on, just to touch that you said when anything came our way What you mean is bonuses, extra bits of money, gifts, whenever it came in, you didn't think oh, that's now on a holiday to Greece or something you thought well, hang on. That's chip away. Let's keep getting there. Were you do you sort of I mean, you said I had a little bit further Fun. So here's the thing you had a bit you used a bit but the bulk of it was bought into the mortgage, no one could see that right? No one could see you driving around in the mortgage that was less no one could see you wearing stuff that was a mortgage that was less so that's incredibly credibly self disciplined and very focus. So yeah.

Kathryn Knowles 25:18
I was gonna say yeah, and also, I always says I'm a Taurus. So when I get something in my mind's eye, that's it, you know, absolutely determined and I'm paying for it and that mortgage being paid off and also had to beat my mom. Obviously, she paid her off at age 40. I had to do it and rebels on top as they fall.

Jason Butler 25:35
That's a great takeaway. If you are gonna compare yourself to other people, it's not how much they've got, but it's it compare yourself to people who have got the habits and the the way of life that you want to have in a sense of them. So that's that was using peer comparison. And one upmanship as it were, to get you to do the positive things that were good for your mental and physical and financial well being right

Kathryn Knowles 26:00
Absolutely, yeah.

Jason Butler 26:01
Okay, so let's, let's just just take a couple of steps about what did you do work wise when you went into work then because you had this idea that you wanted to buy all these houses or the dream house event? Family, you've done a PhD, Alan was working you. We've heard about the property bit. So what was it? What do you How did you build in your your human capital, your ability to earn money,

Kathryn Knowles 26:19
my purchases for money, but I have to say, and I went into work in a very, very easy route compared to most people. And basically, I got my job except for a PhD. And I don't think it mattered what my PhD was in. I started working at the same company that Alan was working out. So I'll end up being there from 2005 from when the company was in a sense of startup, and the person who owned it basically said to me on the day that I handed in my thesis for for review and everything, he said, basically, well, you've got a job with me. And the whole reason was because he wanted to be able to say that he had a doctor working for him. So I will say I do apologize for anybody. And I know that wasn't like any kind of like official correct ways for people to get jobs. And however, it was a way for me to obviously start working very, very quickly

Jason Butler 27:10
still done the work to get the PhD let's not underplay that. They're still pretty, pretty big, pretty big achievement. So what did you do? What sort of job were you doing when you joined Alan's computer company?

Kathryn Knowles 27:19
So I went in as the initially started the finance controller, so I'll explain as well as with my PhD, it's a PhD in business. And I did work within a case study organization for three years. So it wasn't just I didn't have any experience, I had an experience of being in an organization making quite significant changes with absolutely no power whatsoever, because I was just a student who happens to be there and saying to them, come on, let's do this kind of thing. And so I went into it initially starting a bit of finance control, and very, very quickly it was changed to more of like an administration, management kind of position. But I'd say the company we worked when it was very strange, with the way it was set up and it wouldn't it Certainly not the way that we went our business now but basically you could go in one day in a job title one thing you'd be doing one thing you could go in one day and his salary would be one thing it was suddenly go up by three grand one day you'd go into the next day be down by five grand, it was just absolutely insane. And but yeah, so I went to save a crew became more of like an administration manager and kind of slash compliance officer and I became sort of more of the compliance officer for and that became my niche for quite a few years. So a good good good sorry, six, seven years I was sort of like more the compliancy type was installed. That's quite a big function of what I do now as the as the MDF COA. And I think it was just one of those things that you know, my my Salomon, I've reflected, obviously my qualifications, my experience, but also just that I kind of came in and sort of the sorry, there's two different teams. I think sometimes you get this in financial service at times. So there was like the advisor team and the financial services business you're working in Yeah, it was just a little bit so, yeah, so it's in short, sorry, I should have been clear. So it was an insurance broker just like we are. So we started off as an insurance broker and, and we've kind of progressed and as the person decided to retire to Cyprus, we decided, Okay, then let's be redundant, also our own Insurance Brokerage. And that's what we did. And so what made sure you weren't in this firm for how many years before you decided to go on your own? How many years were you there? So I was there personally, it was it was two years. So I joined in 2010 lnf, in 2005. And in 2012, and the boss basically said, literally said, I'm going to retire to Cypress and leave you all. And there was a team of about 10 at the time, including me and Alan and we were just kind of there going Okay, then. I was going to write well Alan, you've done this for seven years. Very, very good. very knowledgeable and, and knows inside out I've been there for two years. I really understand the of the business management side of things in the background mechanics and really learning on the job the actual insurance side of things. And we kind of looked at each other at this point we had a child, we knew we wanted another child, we had the mortgage and everything at time and we're just like, right? Okay, what we're going to do are we going to get to a point where Alan's you know, an hour and a half every day each way traveling to the closest city to do a job like this, and goes from being a manager who's really running a business to maybe just sort of like someone who is not in a management position, who's just kind of like having to take orders and stuff. Do we make the decision to say right, we're going to build our business and we we did and we built our business and everybody sort of you know, we moved to this new site system we all the clients innovated to us so that we could help site help them carry on

Jason Butler 30:46
pay anything for this business, or was it just sort of you you took it over from the guy took it to pay a royalty or how did you do that? Because that's always the problem when people first start out, isn't it in a bit?

Kathryn Knowles 30:54
Yeah. Well, I was gonna say again, this goes a little bit to water I think about our risky side of ourselves. So what we've actually did, I'm sure you're when I say this, you'll be like, Oh, of course you did it that way kind of thing. So what we did is when we knew it was happening for about a year or so, we started doing it where Alan kind of stopped taking a bonus for all of his work as an advisor, obviously, was getting bonuses for his sales as an advisor. And we stopped taking them and they built up within the business so that at the points where we were taking the business on and restarting our own business, we actually had a pretty significant lump sum of money to start the business on to have that financial backing to it, so that we could cover people's salaries and everything before we've got obviously, anyone who sent from business and insurance off to all the agencies are fully set up in that commission actually starts coming in and everything like that. And so so we're very, very cautious. You know, we haven't took out any loans or anything, there was no like credit limits or anything in regards to our company. And the sort of the agreement with the original person is obviously we would innovate the clients over and that we will look after them and that we will continue to obviously review and service their needs and everything. And with is what's known as the renewal Commission's. And we would be kind of in a sense the administration kind of handling company for that so we make sure that we we follow it all and monitor all and we make sure if this sounds like someone cancels a policy or the direct debit issue that we step in and help so he started getting a monthly income inside.

Jason Butler 32:23
So he gets up. Yeah. So it really works for everyone. So here's the thing, you didn't set out to be business owners. But what happened there is that you pivoted and thought about the situation at the time. Okay. Yeah. But because you didn't have much of a mortgage or you almost got it rid over. It was very low. And your lifestyle,

Kathryn Knowles 32:42
nobody actually had that. The market was still pretty pretty there at that point. It was. Yeah, yeah. And so at that point, it was 2012 so only 4 years into a mortgage that had been I think we took out 150,000 on that mortgage, and so only four years in or not A 25-30 year mortgage Yes, we paying as much as we can. It wasn't that that low. It was still pretty much there.

Jason Butler 33:08
Yeah, but what made you think you were gonna be good business owners?

Kathryn Knowles 33:12
Well, pretty much said I'm pretty much good at anything.

Jason Butler 33:18
beleive in yourself that's what?

Kathryn Knowles 33:20
Yeah, that's that's a much nicer way that I was thinking of myself then. And now we just we knew because as well that the owner of the business for many years had been sort of very much in the background, and it had been pretty much being out and running it.

Jason Butler 33:36
so you were de facto owners? Yeah,

Kathryn Knowles 33:37
right. We were just pretty much Yeah, Alan was pretty much running the entire company, but very much leading the sales team. I was there since running the admin team, but because not causing but sorry, building the bridges, you know, into the sales team, as well as try make both teams offering financial services. Sometimes you can have a bit of noise in them sometimes. Yeah. And it was just trying to make sure that we started to really work quite cohesively It just it just felt right. And because we are so good together was a cup with about this point, we've been together for quite a long time. And at that point while we've been together, let's cave and think now I'm just I'm not gonna do the math. I'll embarrass myself on if I try and figure out all the figures while I'm still speaking. But, you know, it just yeah, it was just a natural fit. And we'd always said, as well, when, because of the fact that we were running this business. We've been saying to ourselves for ages, basically, well, we could be doing this. You know, we could be doing this on our own. And it was kind of Alan Allen's goal for quite a while. It's been so exciting, you know, at some points, you know, no, we don't know when but at some point, we'll do this ourselves. And then when he does this person, just so happened to retire, it just all kind of perfectly came it was probably sooner than we expected. But it had again, been a vision of ours. And it just kind of fell upon our laps, in a sense, but I mean, I say that but we had to work hard for it. It wasn't just, you know, we've had to prove ourselves very, very much so to to get where we were with this whole person. Yeah, it was just It was a necessity for everyone, it was a very much a necessity for us. And to make sure we don't, we didn't want to have that lifestyle as well as say, of Alan traveling. So say we were finally so the nearest city is an hour to an hour and a half depending on traffic. And we didn't want to have him commuting. And to potentially have a job like this, and we won't like the home life, we'll move on. He wanted to be home to be able to see his boys slowing up.

Jason Butler 35:23
So let's just summarize that bit there. That when you then became the owner of that business, so there were a couple of things here. There was one, the lifestyle. Alan didn't want a massive long commute and he knew wanted to have time with your growing family. You'd already been running the pub, you know, manning the pumps as it were running the businesses, as de facto meant business managers. So you'd sort of tried before you buy it, as it were. Yeah. Before you bought correctly tense. Yeah. And you Alan and you had the island he built up his bonuses in the business. So there was some capital there and you had a an opportunity You took the opportunity when it presented itself to take over an existing business on sensible terms. It didn't put you in debt or mean, you had to outlay loads and loads of money.

Kathryn Knowles 36:09
Yeah, I think it's that's exactly. It's, it's kind of the things that we did all that. And it's sad. We did it all very, very cautiously that again, it was all very, very, you know, we didn't want to have risk. We didn't want to take out the big loans or anything like that. And, you know, I have to say, touchwood, you know, we were very lucky that everything kind of played out the way that it did. I know that a lot of people haven't been in that kind of situation. And there may be a necessity for business loans and stuff like that. But I do think that we are, you know, we're very pleased that we were able to do it in the way that we were, we were able to do it with a boss to basically say, right, stop paying us bonus, and just save it please in the company and then just give us a big chunk, you know, that's not every boss will be able to do that. Not every company's prepared to do that for people. And it was it just it works out nicely. And as I say, it just meant that we could then focus upon White House We're going to build the company to support our harm life. But then also because we've been working with people for many, many years as well to just say, How can we support them as well?

Jason Butler 37:11
So what did you you know, as you started their business then you What did you learn in there? What did you learn about yourself and about running a business and your finances over those? You know, when you actually did have the help? Were there any highs and lows? or?

Kathryn Knowles 37:27
Yeah, I think there's been sort of like there's been a good mix and I think we have to be my main learning is probably that I'm a very strict compliance person. And that maybe isn't always the most favorable thing in the situations but so but I think money wise and when you start owning your own business as well, you watch the numbers very, very closely obviously. And it can be scary because you seeing obviously seeing the money coming in but then you seeing see all the overhead squat and all the employees wages and it's just like ah, and it can be quite hard as well at times, I think because because we've been you know, some People have been working with each other now for a lot of them 10 to 15 years. And we're kind of like a little family unit this bill, there's 19 of us now. And, you know, we really again cautiously and steadily grow the business, so we don't take on lots of people all in one go. So, but done very, very carefully. For a lot of people for a small business. It is, it's, it's good. And what we say what we do is we take people on very carefully, so we want to obviously take someone on make sure that all the finances are working out, everything's okay. But also so we can I can do personally, very dedicated training with them, because a lot of our clients quite vulnerable. So we like to make sure that people are very much in our mindsets and everything before we kind of let them loose, and with that with clients, and but it's, I've lost my train of thought that it's a bit but it's hard sometimes because I think sometimes, you know, a staff, you know, and you know, ultimately you're friends with people but at some point that has to be it's very hard sometimes to have that divide between being the boss and being friends with people and having that kind of family. Feeling everything and you know, people don't necessarily see that they may see Oh, well, I'm bringing this much into the business because I've done this amount of sales, but then they don't see necessarily all the overheads and everything else in the background. So that can sometimes like financially be a bit of a concern, because you're trying to try and start mediate constantly. between, you know, obviously the people that you get, you know, commission levels that you're getting from different insurers, different sources, and then also with your team to make sure that you're paying them obviously, respectfully for the area and for what it is that they do and their qualifications and everything. So there is that constant. There is kind of like a constant financial juggle, but I have to say with the lockdown, we are seeing some really nice figures in our bank accounts because Alan is not travelling to London every couple of weeks and stay in hotels and on the train. And it's incredible to actually see how much we're certainly not the only people I've heard this from many, many people how much people are saving by not having to do the commute is just it's just incredible.

Jason Butler 39:58
Yeah, it's not necessary. I mean, really, I think what the default probably is going to be is we always work virtually unless we have to go and see people or we do group events or we have to Yeah, yeah. So. So, I mean, that's interesting. You mentioned being friendly to staff rather than being their friend, because at the end of the day, you're running a business, but you Yeah, you want to have a nice time. But at the end of day, you have to have some sense of firmness. I think it's probably a parent, parent, parent child relationship. Probably.

Kathryn Knowles 40:24
Absolutely. I'm terrible. So there was a couple of people that I sent to an awards ceremony in London. And these are full grown women, you know, these, these are early 20s women, and I'm their sex messaging people, they're gonna be saying take care of them that my babies don't let anything happen.

Jason Butler 40:42
So your family now you've got three boys and what sort of ages are now?

Kathryn Knowles 40:46
eight, five and two. So lockdown is interesting.

Jason Butler 40:49
Yeah. And you're homeschooling so you're learning a lot about your patients and what you do or don't know, how great teachers are really and how much they are actually the unsung heroes. Absolutely. So What have you if we if we think now just as we sort of come bring things to a close? Yeah, what are your reflections about your money journey so far, and you're kind of choices you've made? Any highlights lowlights things you wish you'd done differently.

Kathryn Knowles 41:15
And it's best, I don't think there's anything that I wish I'd done differently because I say, you know, we've done what we've wanted to achieve, you know, we've got our dream home, we are now at a point where if we want to do anything like a holiday, we can go for maybe a nicer holiday than we used to go for originally, we're now being able to focus upon doing baby some small investments and doing really focusing on our pensions. So I'm really quite happy with the position that we're in. I think a big thing for me now especially is just really trying to embed the same kind of value into the kids because I'm very much in the mindset that we live in very much a society that you can just have anything you want, anytime a touch of a button, and I think it's scary how easily we are living in that time and I'm absolutely guilty of it. myself, you know, if I want something, then probably people say no to this, but you know, I go on Amazon and I get it within a day, really, really easy to do. And it's very easy to spend your money that way. And I think the kids, many kids don't understand that anymore. And because it is just so easy and things are so cheap now as well, in many ways. So I'm trying really now at the moments of just trying to embed that kind of value into the kids and about, I was gonna say one of the things that really stands out to me as well is that my middle child, my five year old, lost his first tooth the other day, so the tooth fairy came. And we asked with my eldest child, and it was a first tooth it's a two pound coin and a bag of chocolate buttons. And we had that really awkward conversation with my eldest when that happened with him because one of his friends was given a 10 pound note from the tooth fairy and for their first tooth, and to me, obviously to each the bonus of what to want to do and how you sort of like money in to us, but and this could be the northern person in May, but I think 10 pound for first it's a bit excessive

Jason Butler 43:01
I live in East Anglia and our kids never got more than a pound and they were happy as larry.

Kathryn Knowles 43:05
Exactly, exactly. I think that's the thing though, what's the kid value? You know? Is it the 10 pound note? Or was it the shiny two pound coins? The shiny two pound coins meant so, so much, and they've got the piggy banks. And you know, the learning now, the eight year old, especially is learning now that if you want something, and we don't necessarily agree, he needs it, then he needs to go into his pocket money to get it to us. And they don't know about investments. We've actually set up investments and pensions for the kids already. So even my one you also have to pension. Thank you for it. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. Just so we can set them up for life. But I think that's it. I think, you know, no matter what my main thing is that, you know, you've got to be sensible, you've got to have that vision of what you want. And you may need to have a few years like we did of not doing everything that you want to do or maybe to the level that you want to do it but then you can get rewarded and you will see the rewards of so it made it maybe a few years of not socializing as much Not getting the latest things or not getting the brand new wardrobe. I mean, I wear pretty much all my clothes until there's a hole in them. Terrible. But that is, it is a mindset. You know, it's just a thing of Do you want to reach your vision if you want to reach if it's like exercise goals, isn't it if you want to reach your vision, then like, for me, it takes off. If I want to lose that stone, I've got to stop eating the chocolate. And it's just how determined I am to to lose that stone, which I'm losing terribly. By the way. I'm not I'm eating the chocolate.

Jason Butler 44:27
Hey, well, you know, look at what a fencer does. What do you want to leave us with Kathryn? What's your final message?

Kathryn Knowles 44:33
And oh, I don't know. I think for a lot of people, and even though I'm in like the fantasy type world, and everything, I don't know a lot of things as well as I do insurance. And when I actually spoke really sat down with a financial advisor. It really stood out for me the amount of things that I didn't know and he's kind of think, well, I'm in this industry, and this is what I do. I should know all this. It was surprised me how much I didn't know. So what I would say to people is try and maybe speak to someone, I don't know, maybe Financial Advisor, you know, figure out your visions are maybe speak to somebody who does this day in, day out and no obligation type conversation and just see if you know, even if it's a case, if they turn around and say to you, you know what you're on the right road just carry on as you are. Or maybe they may say, Well, you can do that. And that's absolutely fine. You'll see this, but if you do it this way, don't have to be silly. Don't give us all your money or anything. But maybe if you just do this, it could be it could be helpful. So I think, I think probably being, you know, be sensible. Be sensible with money, but don't be afraid to obviously look out for new options. But then if you're looking for new options, make sure it's legitimate people that you speak to

Jason Butler 45:35
Yeah, so never stop learning. Press find a mentor coach or an advisor or someone just to press test second opinion, and be humble and open to new ideas.

Kathryn Knowles 45:45
Absolutely, much more better summarized than what I said I'm sorry.

Jason Butler 45:50
No, not at all. Katherine, I love what you're doing here. I know you're you've got a real zest for life. And if people want to sort of find out about your business and just whether they want to model their business on you or they want to find out by you services, Or what you're doing? what's your website?

Kathryn Knowles 46:02
It is well, we're Cura financial services. But strangely, our website is the Special Risks Bureau. And I'm all over Twitter and everything as well. So if you look for Kathryn Cura, you will find me on there and LinkedIn and Facebook and everything. But you know, it'd be it'd be lovely to chat to people. And as I say, it's if people just want to contact to say hi, then that's quite nice, especially knock down Say hi, somebody you and we can just always have a chat.

Jason Butler 46:25
And I know you do videos and stuff like that. Yeah. And they're very interesting. So you've been very gracious of your time. I've been really, really pleased to hear your story. There's some real brilliant pieces of insight say you're very open and giving your knowledge and thought so thank you very much indeed. And good luck with good luck with all those new challenges you've got coming up. Thank you. Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me Jason Butler. If you'd like what you hear, please do tell your friends and more important Please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai