90. Jazz Rose Score With His Money

This week I speak to Jazz Rose, entrepreneur, property investor, mentor and speaker.

Shaped by his own challenges and experiences, Jazz is on a mission to transform people’s relationship with money. You can check out more about Jazz’s work, as well as access his popular Money Tracker, here.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:00
Hello. In this week's episode, I discuss whether you are literally living below some untapped wealth, and have a great interview with an individual who didn't start out with great things and great advantages in life but has gone on to really have a great relationship with money.

Hello, and welcome to the real money stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money journey, or well down the train, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invest in. Now, since the coronavirus pandemic, a lot more people have been spending a lot more time at home. And they've been thinking you know, haven't got enough space, or I need working area, perhaps I need another bedroom. And for many people, the there's an untapped opportunity to do a loft conversion. Now, not many people really understand how loft conversions work. And if they're not done right, that can be a nightmare. But it's something really worth considering. So you can either convert your loft just to be a better storage area or a sort of a basic room not habitable, in which case that's quite low key don't have to do huge amounts. But if you want to make it habitable, then you have to go up again with the the sort of build of the installation and some of the you have to meet Building Regulations requirements. But for many people who've got a loft that's not being used, there's all different types of lofts. But But the most typical one since the 60s in new builds, since the 60s has been what's called a truss roof, which is where you got this network of timbers in the roof, which basically stops you using it and that's what holds the roof up. And it's a low cost way of building the roof. In older properties. There isn't the trusses, but there may still be supports and they're normally more solid, they're a bit easier to convert sometimes. But the point here is that thinking about converting your loft space or space above a garage or anywhere like that, it's relatively low cost and the return in terms of the improving to the value of your property or the utility value, you know, your ability to use the space is well worth considering. Now, I first got into you know thinking about loft conversions because in one of my properties, it's a bungalow and half of the property's vaulted ceiling the other half has got a truss roof which above the bedrooms so it's a single storey property and basically I've got seven and a bit meters long by all I think the span is another seven meters of lost space that's just not being used. So by converting it and using an ingenious floor support system we can create really usable space and by creating what's called a dormer which is where the the roof comes out at an angle we've we've managed to be able to hopefully create about it'll be about the room in there will be something like five meters by four and a half meters usable space plus on on suite plus a landing area we've storage so you know and that's probably going to cost me about 30 grand all done from beginning to end including fit out carpeting bar from etc. So it's well worth doing because think about it an extra bedroom can add a lot of value to a property so whether it's your own house that you live in, or whether it's an investment property you own or even a property you're thinking about buying look at it for the opportunity to add in a loft conversion Now not all lofts are convertible, just a couple of sort of points here you need roughly about 2.4 meters from the bottom to the top of the ceiling so basically standing the loft and if you're standing on the rafters if you can, if you can't quite touch the ceiling then it's probably got enough space and you know whether you put some what's called Small gables in which is a small windows that extend the roof out a bit or whether you put a four dormer in, there's lots of different things you can do. You know Velux windows in Now, if you're going to convert loft space to be lived in must meet Building Regulations requirements for things like insulation, fire escape, a fire retarding, and all that sort of stuff. But it's not it's not undo it was not, um, unbelievably difficult. And if you're in any doubt, there's a great

book, which I highly recommend. It's called the loft conversion manual by a surveyor called Ian rock. It's by the Hanes, sort of like the Haynes manuals type type thing really, really easy to read. I really, really recommend it. I mean, how many pages 220 pages long, but it's really a large a4 size book. It's also pitch diagrams reading well written, and it will open your eyes to what's possible, even if you go and get a full loft conversion company to do it or you get your local builder, or even if you're a very competent DIY person. And there's various build systems you can use is something called tele beams, which is very lightweight steel beams that go across the floor that hold everything up. So you don't have to have these big heavy Steel's anymore, like you just have years ago, lots of different ways of doing it, well worth looking into. So here's that's my little tip for this week, it's to think about Have you got loft space that's convertible ever is better storage area, or ideally, habitable room or rooms. And you know, something that could be just right above your head, or in a property you're thinking of buying, or property you're thinking of investing in as a way of adding value is a way of getting more for your money. It's a way of you improving the asset that you already own. So do check that one out, really recommend that book. And it's let me know how you get on. And I'll let you know how I get on. I'm in the stage of planning it, I tend to spend a long time planning my projects that I do, we probably won't do that this year, probably do it. Probably next autumn gives us plenty of time to book the best builders gives us time to continue to rent the property out gives us time to build up more savings to go towards that gives me time to plan I don't want to do anything rushing, you know, do things slowly. I don't need the extra room straightaway. But it'll be something which we'll probably do in a year's time. So really recommend that one. loft conversion. Are you basically living below a gold one? Okay, let's get on to this week's interview smashing Guyane, you're going to love this, Mr. Jazz rose, he, he basically grew up with a very, what I would say, you know, very quite a tough upbringing, lived in a poor part of London, quite low expectations in the community. He comes from an ethnic minority community. As I say, he was going to be a footballer, then he had injuries and he wasn't quite good enough. And there's lots of things that could have held him back. But he's gone on to become financially independent. He teaches people about money. He's a great role model for all all types of people, but particularly people from bad communities who perhaps might be thinking it's stacked against them. He's a smashing guy. He's got loads of humility, he's got some great insights. I'm not going to love listening to this interview as much as I did it.

Hello, and thanks for joining me on another edition of real money stories, where I speak to really amazing people about their money journey, the role of money, what they've learned, and so on, so forth. And I'm really excited to be joined by someone who I feel like I really know right, but I've never spoken to him ever in real life. He's he's a really, really prolific guy on Instagram. He's a great role model for lots of people. Just a genuinely nice guy from what I can see. So I wanted to get him on the show to Mr. Jazz rose. Hi, jazz. Hi, Jason,

Jazz Rose 7:57
thanks so much for having me on the show. Absolute pleasure to be here.

Jason Butler 8:01
I'm just you want to just tell people kind of like, what you know, how you've got to where you are now and kind of what what do you do? How do you feel your day? And then we can go back on the backstory?

Jazz Rose 8:11
Yeah, super. Yeah. So I started my first business about 17. Educating, developing creative education curriculums for our primary schools in the UK, I managed to take that business from 30 pound a week to 3 million a year, over a 10 year period. And now what I do is I really challenge and support people to empower other people to become financially free and to become the best version of themselves.

Jason Butler 8:33
God sounds amazing. 3 million, and they can you're making a big difference to people. That's great. So what let's just go back to little jazz. I mean, how did it all start? Tell us about your upbringing?

Jazz Rose 8:46
Yeah, so I grew up with my mom, my brothers, sisters, etc. And one of the things for us is we grew up in housing, which is kind of like a challenging a challenging area channel environment. And then we moved to a place called perivale, which was like really quiet, really calm, complete contrast. So one of the things about housing that was really, really great was that it was a very creative environment. Everyone was aspirational, very creative. We had a lot of best athletes, the best artists, all that sort of stuff. So I developed a lot of my creativity there. And the great thing about parallel was that it was really quiet, very academic. So everyone there tends to be much more academic and so on and so forth from very prestigious in that role. So I was I grew older into my teenage years, one of the things for me, that I that I slowly started started to learn what I was able to bridge the gap between the creativity and the academic side of life. And that's one of the things that really helped me to propel in everything that I've done in my career in my life is really being able to bridge the gap between the artistic side and the academic side of life. Hmm, interesting.

Jason Butler 9:47
So is it fair to say I mean, what was what was the sort of the role of money in your life was was money plentiful? Or was it hard to come by as you were growing up?

Jazz Rose 9:55
Yeah, definitely not blended. definitely wouldn't describe as plentiful. I think we grew up Like many other people, you know, we had enough to get by, but never enough to thrive, we had enough to feed ourselves to have a have a roof over our heads and stuff like that, but never really enough to, to create perhaps the buck the abundant level of abundance that perhaps I have now or that perhaps we would have had desire. So one of the things about my family, my mom was like, really, really intentional about money. And that was one of the things that served me really well, because we didn't necessarily grow up with with modules, and we had enough to support ourselves. And she knew how to manage money really well, like quite like inherently within herself, you know, she knew how to make sure that she was able to put food on the table and make ends meet by doing lots of different bringing in lots of different sources of income, multiple streams of income. Over time, yeah. But it was just making sure that we had enough to support a family and all that sort of stuff. So I took on a lot of those ideologies, and a lot of those those hacks that my mom sort of inherently had, and use that to obviously support my development and the way that I've transcended in life as well. So it's interesting. So

Jason Butler 11:06
your mum was quite a good role model for you in terms of sort of controlling and getting a handle on money. And obviously, you're creating it, but but it sounds to me like you, and you had these different influences as you're growing up. But what was your view about the role of money in life? And were you very materialistic as a teenager, you know, because there's a difference between consuming and accumulating and growing?

Jazz Rose 11:29
Yeah, wasn't materialistic, I wanted to always have a positive appearance and things like that, but I wasn't excessive with it. I think that's a term that I would use. And one of the things that I had to break down as I got older into my late 20s, was that growing up, I'd always believe subconsciously, that in order to have money, that means that you can't have time. And in order to if you have a lot of time, that means that you don't have a lot of money. So I had to really, I had to really break that down or collapse that because even subconsciously, as I was growing my business, I was like, okay, cool, well, I'm making more money. So that means I need to spend more time. And I really had to get rid of that negative psychology in order to really grow and expand what I was doing. And that was really, really important to me.

Jason Butler 12:14
That's a fascinating insight. I'd like to just explore that a bit more this this role of money and time. And of course, as people earn more money, they feel that their time is more valuable. And then they don't want to take leisure time off or do volunteering, even though those two things are very important for your soul and your well being. And therefore then they'll be on more money. And then they have less time. And then they wonder what it's all about. And we've had people on the pod before doing the big investment banking jobs or the big running big businesses and find out they've got no time. So you put a tweeter? No, no, you put something on Instagram. You said I used to have a Rolex some years ago, but he never gave me any time. Tell it. Tell me a bit more about that.

Jazz Rose 12:49
Yeah, sure. It was one of those phases in my life where I really had to start to get to grips with what do I really want. And I often say to people that money is the seventh money is the seven are the sole currency of love the economy of your commitment. So I had to ask myself the question like, what am I committed to? And once I started to learn about these, these terms that are much more common nowadays, like financial independence, financial freedom, and so on, and I was like, Well, I'm spending all of my time here, you know, in this kind of rat race, lifestyle, never coming off this treadmill, even though I might not be physically working. I'm mentally working all the time. Right. So I was like, once I started to learn about financial freedom, I was like, Okay, so I've got this cool Rolex on my wrist. And I actually want to invest in this house so that I can give more financial freedom flights and stuff, so I can buy more time, essentially. So I instead of, you know, trying to save, save, save, save like, well, I've got this roll up. So I remember I was with TSA agent. And she was like, well, I've got to go to my next appointment, you know, time is valuable. And I looked at my route, and I was like, Oh, actually, I can buy this house right now. So I bought a house and sold or sold the Rolex put the Rolex money towards the house. And that was a great Elevation for me, because that that house was actually the one that tipped the balance mean, which enabled me to become financially free. Now pays me 900 pounds a month. So now I'm like, people, look, I can buy several rolexes if I wanted to. But if I didn't make that decision, I would have stayed in the same place.

Jason Butler 14:12
That's a great insight. So we've got a we've got an item which is beautiful in its own right, but doesn't reduce anything could go up in value, but he's not doing anything. You've just moved that got turn that into cash, put that into a productive asset that's unlocked the ability, if you'd put a down payment, that's every bit of borrowing. And you knew and the rest is history. So that's a great idea. That whole idea of time, money can buy time, you don't have to keep being busier, and move shuffling things around to free you up. So tell me.

Jazz Rose 14:39
I think a lot of people a lot of people are just to add to that point. I think a lot of people have hidden assets of where they're at. And they use the common narrative of I don't have the money, but sometimes we have the money hidden in spaces where perhaps we don't always look in plain sight. Yeah, yeah.

Jason Butler 14:55
So what is a classic one, I don't know if anyone who couldn't go around the house and drunk About three or four grand from selling off gear probably more, right? Even if you were on your down as I mean, everyone has got three or four grands worth of gear that they could turn into cash outlay. Yeah, yeah. Interesting. So just tell me, how did you manage the transition from education to the world of work or the world of business? You know, because that can be tricky for some people to come out of uni completely over the top, they lose their well to level they go straight from school to work, and they just end up blowing all the money on partying. How did you manage that transition?

Jazz Rose 15:30
Yeah, it was quite a tricky transition for me, Jason, because I came out of school when I was destined to become the professional footballer, and obviously, that didn't quite work out for me. So then my mum was how did you get to go and get a job?

Jason Butler 15:42
What Why didn't you? Why didn't you do that was because you weren't good enough, we had an injury, or both,

Jazz Rose 15:46
a little bit, a little bit of both. I was never good enough to be like Premiership level, but I always saw myself was playing sort of like Ligue one v two, and doing really well in that room. And it didn't quite work out for me. So then I had to start to look at giving out my CV to wh Smiths and Woolworths wherever I can find the opportunity, and no one gave it to me. So a little bit later, down the line, a couple of my friends that I used to play football with was like, hey, come and do some coaching with us and whatnot. And that was the really the start of my coaching journey. And then I was able to transition that into an education companies that impacted 50,000 children every week over the over the long course of that, of that career.

Jason Butler 16:23
So hang on, hang on, mate. So you went you fell into coaching, is it fair to say did you make to come down here, you're a loose end, you've got you've got into that and realize you like that mentoring coaching, kind of nurturing role. How did you go from that to this 3 million pounds a year business?

Jazz Rose 16:37
Yeah, sure. So one of the things that when I started coaching one of the girls, first of all that I was working for, she said, Hey, I'm leaving coaching, I'm going into full time teacher and just take over this one school for me. That was the school where I was doing 30 pounds a week. And what happened was the head teacher started to look at what I was doing. And they started to be able to see that I was able to bridge the gap between art and academics, I was teaching them football, and I was teaching the science about friction and weighted apart and all that sort of stuff in between. and they saw the amount that they were learning so headteacher will often refer me to other head teachers, it got to a stage where I became overly overly booked and busy. I was also at uni at the times that I would call my friends and people that I knew to come and do the session for me while I was studying and doing whatever else. And then over time, we just managed to build that up in 2002 1007. I was in my second year of uni, and I decided, you know what, I can record real go of this, I can really expand this opportunity and take it full time. I work in about 10 schools at a time I wrote a letter to all of them and said, hey, look, we'd love to come and have your school full time, just kind of on a whim. And three of them came back to me and said, Yeah, we'd love to take it on, we signed those contracts I ended up taking prove my guys employed them full time. And that that was the transition of me to say Actually, I don't want to be in Union anymore. Actually, I want to run this business full time. And that just grew and grew and grew and snowballed into something huge over over the longevity of it.

Jason Butler 17:56
So okay, that's an interesting one. So you realize that you started on uni route, but this business became bigger than anything, and you suddenly thought actually uni is not for me. And that's a big decision to sort of get there's another societal pressure your mom or what you think internally. So you've had to cut you know, if it's not working, or it's not for you, you got to pivot. Haven't you got to move? Right? So that was good. But what did you learn about yourself? It's all very well thinking you're good at coaching and you're you're mesmerized the kids and get great results. But there's another thing too scaling it and getting other people to do it. You know, I can't even get my wife to employ a cleaner to clean our holiday home. Right? Because she said no one will do it to her standard. I said, Well, no one alive that would do it to your standards. They will do it good enough. She said, No, I'm doing I said, Jane, you're a multimillionaire while you're cleaning your own holiday home. She goes, because I know it's done. Right. Anyway. So how did I digress? So how did you make that transition? from, you know, to that to that to business owner, because like, we're not built always, as one thing, being a great technician, if I can use that term, and do another one building and growing a business?

Jazz Rose 18:55
Yeah, sure. And I had to learn that very quickly. And I'm one of those people. I'm a very autodidactic learner. So I learned by doing stuff. And I had to over the first three years of that business being between 17 and 20, I was learning everything that I needed to know about coaching, educating children in the right way. And then I started to look at a case of how can I turn this into a business. So between the ages of like 20, and 25, I have absolutely everything that I can possibly know about business and how to grow it sales, marketing, recruitment, retention, all of that sort of stuff I have to learn and master. And I think that's one of the areas where people fall short, when it comes to businesses, they learn everything about the skill of delivering the service itself, but they don't spend some time enough time learning about the marketing, the psychology, the branding, etc, of how to make that business really successful.

Jason Butler 19:42
And did you find a mentor get some help or government help or a friend or did you get anyone around? You could just you could spin off because it's a lonely place running a business, right?

Jazz Rose 19:51
Yeah, absolutely. You know what Jason, I wish I did, and I was looking and searching. We didn't have the opportunities that we have today. the accessibility of social media. etc. So I learned more from failure. And I made a lot of failures. As you can imagine, I made a lot of failures, a lot of hiccups. But um, so essentially, it took me a lot longer to get to the destination of where I took it, I probably would have done in 17 years, I probably could have done in 12. You know, what I've done in 12 years, I probably could have done in seven with the right guidance and mentorship. But through that process, obviously, I've learned an incredible amount and enable to really apply that and really share that experience with other people. And what's been your relationship with money? How's

Jason Butler 20:34
your relationship with money developed since the early, you know, the the early days of that doing the coaching sort of work all the way through to building this business? And then coming out the other end? I mean, how has it evolved?

Jazz Rose 20:44
Yeah, it's evolved massively, and I had a big transition about three years ago, business was going really well. perception was big as we are, we had ever been turned over just over 3 million a year doing really, really well. And this was a stage where I was starting to separate myself from the business a little bit, and starting to spend more time away from the office, etc. Until one day, I got a call from my CFO at about 230. on a Tuesday afternoon. She says, Hey, Dad, I need you to come into the office. I said, I'm really sorry. Like, I'm out on doing stuff. I'm busy, whatever. And she was like, No, no, it's really important. I said, just tell me what it is. She said, I'm gonna tell you four words that you never want to hear. I said, What are they? She said, we can't make payroll. And I was like, What do you mean, we can't make payroll, we've made payroll every single year consecutively. No problem, no hesitation for the last 1415 years. Anyway, I immediately my immediate reaction was to blame everybody, you know, blame the managing director blenders. And then in the end, and you know, gone through the stress and everything like that, we ended up making sure that we were able to make payroll and make the adjustments. And then it was through that process that I had to start to look at every single area of the business and look at where we were losing money. And then I started to realize that we had money leaking out of the account, lack of safety, which was coming in going out coming in going out

Jason Butler 22:01
to big turnover, but lots of trickling little expenses, right?

Jazz Rose 22:05
Yeah, lots and lots of you know, we have phone bills from staff that we no longer we were no longer been using the staff for five years, but we're still paying their phone.

Unknown Speaker 22:15
benefit, yeah.

Jazz Rose 22:18
And everything from those loads of those little expenses to the bigger expenses of where you have excess staff that you don't particularly need and better drill all that back. So I started to say, Okay, well, if I'm losing money in my business life, surely I'm losing it in my personal life also. So that's how I've kind of started on this financial journey of learning everything that I needed to know that about, for me to become financially free to become financially independent. And then following that journey of reading everything about business, I just started reading and learning everything I can know about money, and how to manage it successfully.

Jason Butler 22:50
And that's a great story there jazz, and thank you for sharing and being honest, because it's only about being honest, you know, as I say, if there was, if it was a triple gold for being an idiot with money in the 20s, I would have got it right. So there's no shame in making mistakes, but we can share this. And humilities is a sign of a great person. So thank you. But that issue of leakages of stuff in the business leakages in the personal life not being what we call conscious and aware and, and proactive with it. And you made a very good point, we always if you're running a business, we're always too late to cut the non performing staff or the stuff that we can't afford, or we don't really need to afford and things as you grow. You think size of a business means success. And it's the same view of money, just because you're earning 120 grand a year income or 200, grand or 50, grand whatever your number is, if you're spending more than you earn, or you're not building productive assets and building savings and wealth or just consuming at all, then just a busy fall. Right. So that's a really good point. No, no, tell me. You exited that business, didn't you? So what did you do? Did you just wind it down and close it up? Or did you sell it? Or did you give it to someone and they paid you a pound? or How did you get from that business?

Jazz Rose 23:56
Yeah, and I sold it last year. Yeah. And that was, again, that was a great learning curve for me of how to start a business and how to make sure you get all the numbers right and everything going,

Jason Butler 24:06
what did you learn from that? What's your big takeaway, because selling a business is a bit like a bit like a boat, and the best time is when you buy it and when you sell it, right?

Jazz Rose 24:12
Yeah, what I learned from that experience, Jason was really learning it really knowing your numbers and really knowing them inside, inside out, you know, learning about the ratios, and the EBIT, da and how it all works. And you know, what's going to make it look and appear and also become really profitable for the other person and how to negotiate successfully, again, like a really powerful skill, again, that we're not taught in school, something that often most of us Miss, but really how to negotiate a good deal so that it works for you as well as working well for the other party.

Jason Butler 24:39
When you make a good point there because often the purchases of your business, if it's your first business or secondary, is they've been doing a lot more than you have. They buy businesses a lot more than you do. So there's an asymmetrical relationship. So probably the people bought from you were quite big boys and girls, right? They knew what they were doing. So you make another very good point there that getting your business in great shape, to sell and maximize the value is a good thing to do even if you're not going to sell it. Because I know when you get I know for having worked with family businesses for years, the years that they get their business ready for sale is when they have their best ever years because they're focusing on all the fundamentals. So I say get your business ready for sale every month. Right? So sell ready, but not necessarily for sale. So that's a great one. So did you take Did you take some money off the table there? Or was it just a walk away? And you took away got rid of the liability? Or did you? Did you get some value out of that?

Jazz Rose 25:27
Yeah, I got some value out of it. Not as much as I would have liked. But I definitely got some value out of it in order to we never

Jason Butler 25:32
get what we want for anything we sell. left there. Yeah. So what did you do after you sold the business? And did you decide just to focus on building up your personal wealth? Or are you still doing businesses or what's what did you start to do after that?

Jazz Rose 25:48
Yeah, to focus now, once I've sold that business a little bit before that, again, with the with the house that I bought in Sheffield sold the Rolex got the house. And I built up a property portfolio over the last 1011 years. And I've got 11 properties now that now paid for I knew that irrespective of selling the business or not, I had enough to support my lifestyle, from the property income. So now it was a lack of transition once I sold it to come into doing more of personal development stuff around helping people with money, and supporting people through that transition through that process

Jason Butler 26:19
with money as well. And for anyone listening do go and check out Jesse's Instagram handle. Just tell everyone what your Instagram handle is.

Jazz Rose 26:28
Yeah, it's at Mr. Josh rose j. w. Se,

Jason Butler 26:31
yeah, he does some great reels and great little stories. And he, he does it on a piece of paper. It's really simple. And I love watching him and everyone lines up, you know, more so than watching people on beaches and stuff. It's just he says, this is how you do this. This is how I've done this, and he does these little drawings. And I love the simplicity that comes obviously from your coaching and your didactic learning you you set it out, and you set it out in a way which is very accessible. So what do you think it is when people won't engage with their finances and won't engage with money or fearful of it or filler? It's not for them or overwhelms them? Or they're not a money person? And what would you say to them? Because, you know, as you said, You thought you were a better footballer than anything, but you didn't do that. But you've gone on to do okay, so and you didn't come from what I call a, you know, a wonderfully advantaged upbringing. So what do you think? How do you think people can change that mindset?

Jazz Rose 27:22
Yeah, I think a lot of people have this fear around money. And we have this friction around it because of how we've often developed and grown up in our environment. You know, I often say to people at school is not designed to make you successful, as wonderful and inspiring as a school can be. It's not designed for that it is designed to give you a foundation for you to then build the house that you desire, right. But a lot of people, we think that we automatically think that school is going to build the windows and the house and everything like that and make it look glossy. But school is just the baseline, it's just the foundation. And then you've got to find outside of school outside of your existing environment. Like what are the keys to access the wealth that I deserve, deserve and desire in my life, and really start to look outside of your existing environment and start to read books, listen to podcasts, go to conferences, and learn everything that you can about money, because here's the thing, money has such a massive impact and influence over our lives. But how much time do we actually spend looking after it? How much time to actually spending naturally our money and money grows, where it's nurtured and cared for. So if you don't have TRICARE for it, is not going to grow very fast. It's not going to grow very fast, and it's not going to grow very far.

Jason Butler 28:29
And money I've always said to people is can be a lot of naughty child, right, you know, if he's not parented properly, it will be naughty, and he would really detention member on the on the supermarket floor and sometimes has to be sent to the naughty step. Right? Okay. That's how it becomes a normal person, you know, and a decent person. So money needs parenting. Yeah, got it. But I'm interested to know, you post quite a lot of pictures about with you and your partner. And you both smiling. And that's great. I'm just wondering, I'd like to touch on the issue of money and relationships and what you've learned and what perspectives and thoughts you've got about that? Because it is the if not the number one, it's the major cause of relationship breakdown, and certainly divorce. And I just wondered what what your thoughts are philosophy is when it comes to money and relationships, and certainly those close relationships?

Jazz Rose 29:13
Yeah, focus, I think it's so important that we're all you know, there's three relationships that come into play with that is the relationship you have with yourself. There's relationship you have with your money, and there's a relationship you have with your partner. And you've got to make sure that you have control over all three, and making sure that you're hitting those those those parameters to the highest point, right. I think that everyone has a different money mentality. And this is something that I teach people as well. It's like, sometimes you can think okay, more my partner's a spender or my partner, like, why is he cleaning the holiday home? This makes no sense. But one of the ways that one of the one of the things that that I've had to learn is that Zen only meant that my partner's money mentality is high money mentality, right? So what I've got to look at is how can I support that money mentality while Also making sure that our money is being nurtured and cared for whilst making sure that the things in the house are taken care of, etc. So it's really about tempering that balance and supporting that. But here's a question that I asked my partner because she's like, she. She's a spender, right? She's a spender. I'm more of a saver investment type of that. So I said to ask, What do you love to spend? And if she was like, well, I like to spend more clothes BonBon this time the other. I said, Okay, good. So here's, here's what we're gonna do. I'm going to save and invest. I'm going to focus on that. And how about you daughter spend them for my clothes. She's like, yeah, I bought that right now. Now she gets a fix, if you like, from buying stuff for two for the price of one. Rather than going, why are you spending all that money, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Jason Butler 30:49
So that's why you're such a snappy dress. So it's nothing to do with you. It's to do.

Jazz Rose 30:55
On that basis, now, now is an advantage to me. Yeah. Everybody wins.

Jason Butler 31:00
Yeah, just let me let you into a secret. I haven't bought any clothes for 22 years. My good lady, she does all my buying and anything that she doesn't buy, and I need a tailored suit or jacket that's done by a tailor handmade tailor. So you're absolutely right. You know, I'm with you on this, as I say, horses for courses. So interesting. But how do you raise? How do you resolve? How do you get on the same page with your partner when it comes to money? Because that seems to be the problem, whether it's running a budget, whether it's building wealth, whether it's making decisions about priorities? How would you? What would you be your best insights that you would share with people? How do you how do you get on the same page?

Jazz Rose 31:36
Yeah, fantastic question. We have a money tracker day. So we have a money tracker where we go through our money trackers every single month on the last Sunday of every month. And there's three questions about that I typically apps and actually typically asked me is what did you really love to spend on this month? But what was really valuable to me, what was your best spent? What did you get the most joy, pleasure and fulfillment out of? And then what what did you What did you not enjoy spending on what was the least fulfilling thing that you've spent on, and then that creates a consciousness that creates a conversation about art that really enjoyed that spending per day. And then it starts to eliminate the things that you don't enjoy? It starts to eliminate the things that you're spending on overtime, that don't add value to your life. And then the third question is, what do you want to spend on next month? Right? So then we start to make a plan of all of the things that we want to spend on and then it's like, Is that is that all of those expenses in alignment with our goals? is in alignment with your goals? Is that what you really want? And again, it's non judgmental conversation. Really important, Jason is not about what are you gonna do that?

Jason Butler 32:37
There's no other than your defensive right straight away. If you start saying that

Jazz Rose 32:40
you're right, exactly. Yeah, it's all question oriented and questioning without judgment, like, is that really important to tell me why that's valuable? And then, you know, you allow the other person to make the decision? And sometimes they'll say, Well, yeah, I think I really wanted to establish that in the other call great until three days later that I don't really want to, you know, Jeff, through those questions that you've asked, and again, it works both ways. So it's a reciprocal conversation. That's really powerful. Now, I

Jason Butler 33:06
said, it's an interesting paradox. As I have become wealthier and had more choices in my life, I spend less now and consumption and I did in my 20s. Obviously, it was a train wreck that and you know, parties hiring nightclubs. God knows how many holidays flashcards you name it, God knows. But the funny thing is, as I got more money, it's not that I'm a miser, I just don't I mean more much when choosing what's important to me. And for me, not having to be doing anything or jumping to any horses tune is actually for me, I think I'm a rock star, right? But I don't have a lot of possessions. How, how do you think people can can can go from being a consumer to being an accumulator, but also not for it to not for the accumulation of wealth to become the bit like that Bible says it's not. Money is the root of all evil, the love of money is the root of all evil. In other words, the obsession with it. So in other words, that you don't become so obsessed with accumulating money that you forget to live a life. So there's a happy medium, and he avoids the question I think I'm trying to ask you is, how do you get that happy medium between striving to build it and get ahead and not, you know, build reserves and get ahead, and then start enjoying it? Because there are a lot of people out there who have built some wealth, and you don't know when to start turning the tap back on? Right.

Jazz Rose 34:20
Yeah, great question. I think it's all about, you know, one simple word that changed everything for me. And that's proportionality. And understanding what proportion of your wealth what percentage, what proportion of your income goes on fun, what percent and I did a video the other day on if you're sorry, Jason, I just said, Look, you know, stop stressing out about money. Make sure you have a fun account. You know, I was one of the people I was always investing in, you know, invest every penny that I had, or save every penny that I had, but actually I had to take a draw back and say, Actually, I want to have this amount of money going into my phone account every single month. And I don't spend I don't use that account every single month. But what I do I go Oh, there's programming now I can do what I like doing. Do that. Yeah, absolutely, yeah.

Jason Butler 35:01
Let's take Jason out. Yeah, I've got it for a nice meal and a drink. Yeah, I've got it. Yeah. So anyway, that the point, the point, the point there is, and the smart spending system that I devised helped me go from an idiot in your 20s. to getting ahead, we have a fault called the fan account, right? So every month, we consciously put that money aside at the beginning of the month, and we spend down to zero. And once it's empty, we could technically go to the reserves, but there's a big mess. Like, let's start hitting that fire alarm. Right? You know, we're not going to do this. Well, perhaps you did at school for a laugh, but you wouldn't do it normally break the fire alarm, you'll get the fire extinguisher out you do it because there's a fire as a problem. So that's a good one. Yeah, giving yourself permission. What do you think? If you think, you know, thinking now you do a lot of work for young people. And anyone who's listening here is wanting to teach their children about money, what's your What's your thoughts, ideas, insights, and what you've learned there that that you think is relevant, so that, that young people can learn the right money, habits or behaviors and priorities?

Jazz Rose 35:54
Yeah, I think it's about really having an open conversation and communication with children about money and understand so that they understand what it is how it impacts decision making, how to use it, like what are you saving? What are you investing, what it like, I go through my my oldest boy is seven, and well, I've 76 six year old and a four year old, and I, my six year old, I said to him, okay, this is your investment account, right? This is how much is in there. So he has an immediate like level of consciousness about what's going on with his money and what it is that we're doing. So now when he becomes 1516, investing, there's not going to be a term that he's never heard of before. So it's about having those conversations and about looking at, you know, how do you spend your time in proportion with your money, because that's really, really important also.

Jason Butler 36:42
Now, that's a really good point about teaching as getting the terminology out there and having a conversation that doesn't feel stilted. And there's a great, I would I would add to that. I was talking to someone the other day, my daughter Daisy, she's 22 she has some savings and capital investments and stuff. And you know, she's she's gonna go off and do a kind of first proper pay job beyond working for me and someone said, Oh, yeah, well, if she's got some saving investments, you can go down there and pay your rent and live in Where is Manchester said, well, hang on. We don't spend capital. Why would we use capital to meet lifestyle costs? Oh, she's got to get a job. That's enough to pay the rent. Right? She doesn't touch capital is sacrosanct. Because it isn't her money. I said, Yes. It's her money and its capital. And she knows is capital. She's no more spend that money when cut a finger off. And it's not. It's as you say, it's not that there's a big igloo, she wants to go blow it all that's up to her. But she knows she's learned those rules of kind of how do we do this, this is sad. This is so precious that we built this up once this is you nurture this, this is a plant you get the seeds out of it, you don't just cut it out and put it in a forest and is finished. And it's that methodology that thinking about how we approach our money. And and how we think and feel about capital versus income. I think that's an interesting one. Yeah. So you got your your six and your four year old? What do you think they see a What do you think the their views are going to be a view as they grow up? Because you obviously you've had a level of financial success? How are you going to keep them grounded and keep that that keep them have that hunger? You let me put it another way. The problem when we start coming from nothing and we start building wealth is we don't want them to have the same struggles we had naturally the struggle is like a butterfly coming. You know, a caterpillar, the butterfly needs to needs to have that pushing itself out the cocoon to get the wings going. How do you keep them hungry and, and humble and grounded when they're growing up with relative affluence? Which Let's face it, they are?

Jazz Rose 38:40
Yeah, I'll start by saying it's never easy. my four year old daughter turned around to me, she said that we need a swimming pool that Uncle Mike's

Jason Butler 38:59
when I'm cooking my case for the chemicals, yeah. It's crazy.

Jazz Rose 39:03
It's crazy. One of my friends over at my friend's house the other day, and one of the things that he says what he does on his TV screen, as a screensaver, there's a picture of where we grew up, which is like old, old flat. And now I just remind these kids, this is where your dad grew up. That's easy. So I think whatever it takes to really communicate that whether it is making sure that you take the children on experiences that are not perhaps lavish, so they can see perhaps like the way that you've grown up and the money habits that you've learned, and really find a balance between the two because they don't need to what I say to people is that they don't need to live in that environment that I used to grow up or whatever, but they need to understand it. And it's about having that balance of you know, you live in a welfare environment now, but understand of where it came from and how it came about so that you can start to make a decision.

Jason Butler 39:56
I think what you're really saying here is the developing empathy in your young People in your life and caring for other people the environment is probably the key bit isn't it? That's really what we're talking about their empathy for other people beyond you. The life is not just like this. But you did a lovely one the other day on Instagram when you were talking about what is this about detached houses. When I was young, we didn't know that detached we didn't actually we knew they existed. We never thought detached houses when people are asked, just you want to just share that that insight. I loved it. Just Just that little story that what you meant gone?

Jazz Rose 40:28
Yeah, I love that. Yeah, I never grew. I never knew what the house was until I was about 2627. Tough house, I don't know, I can take a guess. But I don't know what it is, you know. And we used to go to this place in in Oxbridge. memetics Park in Wisconsin. And it was like a row of beautiful houses, just like an end road and about 6070 detached houses. And that was it. And that was the only sort of experience that I had of detached houses, you just didn't go around the neighborhood looking at the touch aisles, and you have to go to the special road. And I, when I was about 27, that started to plant a seed in my consciousness of, hey, this detached house idea is possible. And again, it's looking at hidden assets, hidden things that you don't know or know are there. So when I moved to my detached house, it wasn't necessarily that I had hundreds of 1000s of pounds in the bank ready to buy this house? No. But what I didn't know was that I had the hidden assets in my existing home that I was able to use, let out that property is a HMO, use that as a higher leverage to afford a higher, higher costing home, unable to move. So actually, sometimes it doesn't cost money, but it really costs how you think about money and how you use that to move money. And I was saying to people look like maintenance or normality, right? Let's move away from this. I can only get a one bed flat, or I can only get a shared device. There's other options out there. And sometimes you have to move locations sometimes Yeah. But start to normalize the things that you will accumulate in your life because then they'll become much more natural to you.

Jason Butler 42:04
I love it. I love it, that visualize it, believe it. You are, you're worthy of it, it will come to you money. There's plenty of money, as you say, but there's not so much time, unless, as you say, unless you've got that Rolex. So that's great. Jazz, you are a superstar. I love talking to you. You got a lovely way about you. And obviously people can follow you on Instagram. You're such You're so gracious of your time and very humble. What do you want to leave everyone with before we close up today? Any any sort of words of wisdom when it comes to you know, the whole issue of the relationship with money?

Jazz Rose 42:34
Yeah, I would just say you know, manage your money or your money will manage you. Make sure that you pay attention to your money or your money is going to pay attention to somebody else who's going to look after him nurturing care for her. So make sure that you look after your money so that your money can look after you.

Jason Butler 42:49
And I think that reminds me of that old saying when should you kiss your wife or husband? And the answer is before someone else does. Jazz rose rock star legend to the personal finance world. You've been an absolute superstar. Appreciate you being on the show.

Jazz Rose 43:07
Thank you so much for having me. Appreciate it.

Jason Butler 43:13
Thanks for listening to real money stories with me Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested

Transcribed by https://otter.ai