87. Laura Janes Maps Money To Vision

This week I speak to Laura Janes, the founder and director of Uniquity, the marketing firm on a mission to build better financial services brands that reach the customers that matter.

Having trained as an actuary in pursuit of the career she thought she ought to have, Laura soon realised that she did not want to work solely with logic and statistics but needed to incorporate her flair for creativity.

Do check out Uniquity here.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:00
Hello, in this week's episode, is property due for a fall. And what does that mean for your wealth? What tax rises? Can we expect? And how might that change the financial decisions you make? And I interviewed Laura Jane's a financial services marketing and branding expert who explains why communicating the benefits of good financial advice is a more fulfilling career than her original choice or training to become an actress. Hello, and welcome to the real money stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invest in. First, let's talk about property. Now, you're probably aware that the property market in the UK is absolutely red hot. And this is actually being played out in many developed countries including the US. And I'm quite worried. Now my brother and I we try and do property deals. He's much more prolific than me. And we've been trying to buy development opportunities and we losing out to Crazy Crazy prices. For example, I put a bid in of 150,000 for a derelict semi detached house in an urban low income part of Ipswich is a complete refit from top to bottom. I've been 150,000 as I say, but it went for 225,000. So there's virtually no profit there when you finish so you know who knows. My brother made 250,000 for a dilapidated house in Broadstairs. And it went for 325,000.

And I looked at a development plot with planning permission for a three bed bungalow in a rural part of Suffolk and that should have been about 150 to 175,000 based on a post build value of 350. But the owner won't accept less than 250,000. Plus, homebuyers are scrambling to compete on buying a home before the stamp duty holiday comes to an end on 30th of June in England and Wales. And that's next week. Now remember, when people rushed to beat the deadline for the abolition of mortgage interest relief at source Morris in 1988, when the market was white, hot and interest rates were low. And within a few years, interest rates had shot up, the property market collapsed. And I personally ended up losing 16,000 pounds of my small flat. Now that there's no sense in paying 20,000 pound more for a property to save 10,000 pounds in stamp duty, and then be vulnerable to a future crash. And a stamp duty holidays active like petrol on a fire. So if you're thinking of buying a home or property investment, you need to take a very long term view. So be cautious. Be patient. I'm not sure where we go from this. You've been warned. Right? Let's talk about tax. Now another cloud on horizon I can see is that taxes obviously are likely to rise to repair the nation's finances from the COVID pandemic. But I think there are also some other drivers that are going to influence tax policy. And I've identified three key ones, but there might be others. But these are the three key that I've identified and the first is the green economy or decarbonisation of the economy. So that's everything from the conversion to electric vehicles, energy efficiency, anything like that that's going to help decarbonize the economy is probably going to be the subject of either incentives for penalties, so incentives for decarbonisation, and penalties for carbon intensive activity and lifestyles. So that's one area, then the next key trend is this issue of the fairness agenda or leveling up agenda. So the idea that some people are structurally, you know, caught and stuck in poverty, or they have bad or poor or worse life outcomes. So think about that in terms of things like pension tax relief, and so on, so forth. And then you've got the final one, which is housing and housing in the UK, certainly, and in many other countries around the world is, it's kind of a key part of our psyche, you know, an Englishman's home is his castle. But there is a real problem with affordable housing and high quality housing. So I suspect there will be both penalties for those who invest in housing as a form of wealth creation and preservation, but also incentives for those who are thinking of adding to the housing stock or improving it or expanding it. So there will be sort of push and pull on that. So let's just have a think about things that are on the horizon right now. So we've got the stamp duty holiday in England and Wales at the moment, and that's been exempting stamp duty for most properties under half a million from the first of July, that sort of gradually starts to whittle away that changes to a 250 limit. And then from the first of October onwards, we'll be back to the old limit of 125 etc in different manners So, so expect that to have possible changes to the property market. And I'll come back to that in a minute.

But there are potential I'm there been several reports recently over the last couple of years into suggested reforms for inheritance tax, capital gains tax, and even indeed pensions. Now, inheritance tax, which is a tax levied on someone's estate when they die at 40%, above a certain limit, and some asset sets and classes are exempt from that. There is lots and lots of ways to minimize or avoid inheritance tax. And some people take the view that that adds to wealth inequality. So keep an eye on receiving wealth that you haven't earned. The idea is that that's not a healthy thing. But it's an obvious area to target for tax rises, because it brings in several billion pounds, it's I think it's doubled in the last 10 years, the amount, but it's still a very small amount of the whole tax take. So you know, that people don't vote. So that will be an area that potentially is crying out for reform, even if it's closing off some of the loopholes and exemptions. Now, present capital gains and income from dividends and savings are taxed at a lower rate than income from employment and self employment. And we could see a reversion to the system we had in the 1980s when income and capital gains were actually combined and taxed as one. And to me, that makes a lot more sense. I mean, why would you tax dividends at a lower rate than working doesn't kind of make sense. And I would say it's much fairer just to lump it all together and, and have one rate and certainly simpler. So that's one thing to think of, but the one I'm particularly interested in, I think might have have a big impact on those of you who built some wealth, or are inheriting wealth or expected inherit wealth is a proposal from an independent organization called the wealth commission, which is made up of academics, economists, tax advisers, etc. They published their very detailed, really well research proposals into a one off wealth tax. So the idea is, it's a one off levy of 5%, for those with a certain amount of wealth, so they gave different options. One was anyone with wealth over half a million. The other idea was anyone with wealth over 2 million. So the idea is that whatever that levy is, and whatever the starting rate, the levy then can be paid over a period of years. So the author's view was that as long as it's a one off event, not an ongoing tax, that could really help the government get the finances sorted out. And it wouldn't have a great deal of impact, it wouldn't wouldn't negatively affect economic activity, because obviously, it doesn't affect consumption. So that's one thought. You know, that is on the table. Now, Richard sooner has been on record last year saying, you know, he doesn't see any value in our wealth tax. Well, he might be actually mean an ongoing wealth tax, there's something separate and they have to in France, but who's who's to say that you can't have a one off? levy on on, you know, capital, you know, Why be only taxing high earners, people over 100,000 150,000, or higher rate of 40 45% 47% National Insurance? If it's okay, for income, which is, you know, you're getting paid for doing something? Why is it not okay for wealth. So I don't know, watch this space. So what does all that mean for you and your finances? Well, it No one knows what the future holds. But we do know that taxes are not going to get easier. So here are just some thoughts, and they're not recommendations or advice, they're just some suggestions to think about, that you might look at sooner rather than later. So the obvious one is salary sacrifice for pension contributions, because at the moment, if you sacrifice salary into a pension, your employer doesn't pay National Insurance. And if you can get the employer to add that to your pension contribution is 13.8% of the amount. So 1000 pound contribution gets increased by 138 pounds, and nothing that can't possibly continue for the long term. So if you've got a bonus coming up, or a pay rise, or you've got a one off amount, you know, think about that, or signing on bonus, or, you know, leaving payment or something like that, you know, just just think about the options we're putting into pension. And, of course, pensions have got a 40,000 pounds annual limit. And you've got three years of unused limit as well you can carry forward, that's potentially up to 160,000 pounds you can put into pensions, or your employer can or you can extract from your business. And of course, if you do have a business limited company, extracting profits as dividends still seems to be the most efficient way of doing it. So if you've got profits that you've built up, and if it makes sense for you and you don't need it in the business, speak to your tax advisor about the potential of perhaps bringing forward taking dividends out sooner rather than later. I think if you've got things you can use it with.

Another thing here is consider making lifetime gifts or suggesting your parents or grandparents or even great grandparents do while the current rules are in place to enable money to be transferred between generations without immediate inheritance tax. Now most cases, transfers from one generation to another you have to the person giving the money has to live for at least seven years. Sometimes it's a bit less depending on the what they've done in the past and you can give 3000 pounds each year as a gift, and that's immediately exempt in the previous year if you haven't done it, and you can give money out of regular money out of income, even if it's just one year, if your intention was to give it regularly, that can be immediate exempt. If you want a high income that could be useful. If you're thinking of downsizing your high value home, then think about doing it sooner rather than later. Because you know, homes at the moment are capital gains tax free. But that may not always be the case, or it may only be certain value. So if you've got a two or 3 million or 4 million pound house, it might be only a million pound house is capital gains tax free. So think about that. If you're thinking of selling your trading business or an investment property, look at perhaps doing that sooner rather than later, as businesses can be taxed at anything from kneel to 10%, and property anywhere between 18 and 28%, rather than actually the 47% rate for those people earning over 150,000 pounds of income. And if you want to raise capital for your new or your young business, then you know do it now while we still got tax breaks, like seed ers and enterprise investment scheme rules which give investors tax breaks. And I know because I've used them, and they're very good. In fact, CD is is unbelievably good, because although it's high risk, if you invest in a business that does very well, and you can defer capital gains into that investment up to 150,000. Then when you come to sell the original gain you deferred is completely wiped out income tax rate relief of 50%. You don't have to pay that back. And there's no capital gains tax, what's not to like? There are just some ideas and you should obviously speak to your Professional Tax Advisor for personal advice on what makes sense for you. Now to this week's interview, Laura Jane's is an expert in financial services, branding and marketing. And she showed her career as an actuary and life at a big bank to build her own marketing and branding business. But as she explains, money can be complicated, but financial principles are very simple. Have you enjoyed?

Hi, Jason. Great to be here. Yeah. Good. Well, thanks. Thanks for joining us, Laura. And as I say, I did obviously I've known your mum for many, many years. And I heard the stories about her daughter, Laura, over the years. And then when we finally did meet each other, the the reality did meet the rhetoric too, which is unusual, because parents are always biased about their children. So that's definitely my cue to put a halo over you. So do you want to just tell everyone, what you kind of get up to today as a business? And then we'll get back into your backstory?

Laura Janes 12:28
Yeah, so um, today, I run a company called uniquity. We're a marketing agency for financial services, businesses. And we have the lofty ambition I guess, of growing the world's best financial brands. I absolutely love financial services for my sins. And so it's a pleasure day to day to be able to work with some great financial services companies and help them grow and get to the right clients.

Jason Butler 12:55
Hmm. And I think what you're doing is interesting. And I do recommend every listener to go and check out your iniquities website. Because here's the thing, if you're going to employ a marketing company, you want to see that they can market themselves properly. You know, you don't ask, how can put it you don't ask someone who's unfit and unhealthy, how to be fit and healthy. Okay, so I would suggest do have a look at their websites. elegantly beautiful, was a really good example. But Laurie, you had a bit of a convoluted route to where you are now, didn't you? So do you want to just take us back a bit and tell us how you kind of your introduction to financial services, but more importantly, your exposure to the whole concept of the world of money and personal finance and stuff? Because it's an interesting story, isn't it?

Laura Janes 13:35
Yeah, definitely. I think like the personal re actually, in terms of how I got here, I think goes back to the first ever business I set up, which happened to be when I was about 13. I remember spotting an opportunity on the school bus. It was quite a long bus ride from the school to home. And lots of girls wanted sweets. And so I spotted this opportunity that I could, you know, potentially set up a sweet shop and make some money on the side. So I actually went to my mum with that idea. And I was like, Can I do this, like, I just need you to take me to the cash and carry to get the sweets and you know everything else? And she was like, well, you can do this. But what I want you to do first is do a spreadsheet forecasting your profit and loss and everything that's going into the business. And if you do that, and you can set that up right then you know, go ahead, you can do it. And so I do definitely did that, which is actually a great exercise in kind of starting to understand business and all of those sorts of things. And I did this sweet shop for a couple of years, a quite a lot of my own profits too. But it was kind of my first successful venture, which I think got me that appetite to kind of do the business side of things, but it actually took me quite a long time to get back into setting up my own business. And because as I went through school, I had a passion for a lot of subjects but I was particularly strong in Mathematics, but also an art. But I think, like I reached that point at 16, where I had somebody, they didn't do double maths and art at the same time on the a level curriculum. So I had to pick a pick a route. And I think at that age, you do kind of make the sensible decision, the sensible decision was mathematics and physics, because there's so many jobs in that. And, you know, my dad's an academic as well. So he was very much into their proper subjects, not like art. And even at that age, I remember going to the, the guidance counselor in terms of like, what career you're going to do, what career and I remember looking down on all of the roles, and you know, what paid well, and one role that paid really well, I was an actuary, and you needed to have mathematics to do that. So I decided at quite a young age, probably it was probably about 1617, I was going to be an actuary, that was going to be my route. And so I went off to university to study to be an actuary, and I did mathematics, operational research, statistics and economics. at work. I would love to say, I enjoyed that degree, I enjoyed elements of that degree, and the business side of it and everything else. But I think, after I graduated, I kind of realized that I didn't want to have a job that was that kind of statistically and data driven and all numbers, I would really, I couldn't really vocalize it at that point. But I was missing that creativity of the artistic side of what I loved. When I came here. And when I came home, my mum said, Well, you know, what are you going to do now? Or I was like, I've got absolutely no idea. And she happened at the time to be running a successful financial planning business. In fact, back then, she was already doing cash flow planning, charging fees, which was very unusual at that time. And so she said, Why don't you just come and work here for a couple of years? And so I did, and I absolutely loved it. And the way she did financial planning, she used to sit me in all her meetings, was every meeting started off with a client in terms of going well, you know, what do you what are your goals and aspirations? What are you trying to achieve? You know, where, where do you want to get to, and I found that so inspiring in terms of a way of working. I mean, at that point, I didn't, I thought that's what everyone did. But I thought it was a really great way to approach money, and then all of the product and investment stuff, you know, depending on what your objectives are, comes off the back of that there was no hard selling, it was like a fantastic introduction to financial services.

Jason Butler 17:38
And I know your mom very well. And she's a very, she's a real solid person. She was one of the vanguard of financial planning, you know, years, we're all in the sort of, I mean, I'm 51. She's a little bit older than me, but she looks about, you know, 30. So she's doing something right. But the thing about financial planning those days was that we used to sit with clients, and we would ask them, what do they want their money to do for them? And that was an alien question. So you are getting that firsthand around the seat. But here's the thing. I'm interested to know what kind of money conversations emanated in your household as you were growing up, you know, kind of what messages did you pick up about money. So I know your mom's a, you know, very good with a spreadsheet and clearly wanted you to be as well.

Laura Janes 18:18
I think I, my parents were actually divorced. So I think I picked up very two different confusing and conflicting many messages. So on my dad's side, he's an academic, he's a professor of astrophysics, he's very much it's almost like he has a story about money not being a good thing. You know, he thinks business is a very kind of cutthroat place. And all of those sorts of things. He's always been quite frugal, save a, you know, pay off your mortgage, say, you know, have defined it, sorry, here, he's got like, you know, a final salary, pension, all of those sorts of things. So very cautious, wouldn't spend a lot of money, you know, on material things, and that sort of thing. And then I guess on the other side, I've got my mom who has, like, an incredible kind of, she's very self made. She has, you know, she's been very successful in her own right, she kind of baked into me that, you know, anything's possible, you can do anything that you want. And money was always like, seen as a good thing in her in her world it was never talked badly about it was always something that you know, we did and we wish she was aspiring to and that she was successful. And so I kind of had these two like weird, different stories about money. And so I think my own money story got a little bit confused because of that.

Jason Butler 19:38
And it's interesting, isn't it? And you know, you're not uncommon. Lots of people grew up in you know, households, separated or divorced. But even if they're not divorced, there can be separate different conflicting money messages and stories. So So who do you think you gradually took her off to more? Was it more like your mom or more like your dad? When it comes to money? I mean,

Laura Janes 19:59
I think When it comes to money, like probably more like my mom in terms of like that very kind of goal focused approach to money, like money being a meat, like knowing what you want, and then money enabling it, but I think for a long time I carried around this money as bad type thing, like, and that would, that will come about as me saying, well, money's not important to me, or, you know, I don't need money to be happy, those kind of things. But I think, as I've learned more and develop more, someone was explained to me that money is just energy, you know, and if you're doing all the right things, you're going to have more of it. It's not bad, it's a it's a good thing. And I very much see money in that way now that if I'm being good at what I do and successful, and that money will come and there isn't anything bad about it.

Jason Butler 20:45
But that one point you made mention is really that whole abundancy abundance and scarcity mindset. So in other words, if we believe that we aren't worthy of money, or money's dirty, or money's or ill gotten gains are the root of all evil, then those messages will one way or another, consciously or unconsciously, we will do everything necessary because we're golden machines. And it's the same with with attracting money to you. So let's interesting. So I just must touch on how did you navigate the uni years? I mean, did you come out as a complete train? train wreck of a financial result? Or Or did you manage to get through in one piece?

Laura Janes 21:22
So I was I was incredibly lucky. And I'm an only child. And so my parents had always said, when you go to university, we're going to pay for you, you through university. But my mom also also did say to me at the time, you know, that student loan is on a very low interest rate. So you might as well take it, you might as well have it in the bank. So when I finished university, I kind of had a bit of a buffer in that money, and I was paid through. So I was I was incredibly lucky in that sense.

Jason Butler 21:51
Yeah. So but here's the thing. I mean, your parents were investing in your education, which for you was just part of your development, right? So again, it's about this concept that whether it's the debt or whether it's a gift, or whether it's money, even if you're using it to improve your skills, that's an investment. That's not the same as consumption. So how did you develop? You know, when you left university, I think you went to work for big bank, didn't you? Is that right? Or was it an insurance company.

Laura Janes 22:18
So after I worked for my mom, for a couple of years, I decided I'd go and spread my wings. And I joined the Lloyds TSB, was at the time graduate scheme, and went to work in their insurance division, you went on rotation, and then ended up in Scottish widows in Edinburgh, working in the pensions department up there. And from there, I went on to work at AXA down in Bristol, and on that rap platform, and that sort of thing, and in strategy. And then eventually I did an executive MBA, which often, you know, kind of opens your mind up to different things. And I ended up going back to Lloyds on their kind of MBA scheme. I had some, like brilliant experiences working in big corporates that I would, you know, I'm really grateful for that the biggest thing, and this will sound really silly, but the biggest thing that surprised me was, I've been working for my mom who's so like customer focused, and you know, the client comes first when you go into these organizations. I'm like, it's not quite in here. Like, I think like that's changed over time. There's definitely even more, you know, client centeredness, and all of those sorts of things. But at the time I came in, it was a completely different attitude in terms of putting the client at the center of everything.

Jason Butler 23:36
Did you you trained as an actuary originally, did you continue to do Is that right?

Laura Janes 23:42
No, I didn't, the degree I did and gave you some actuarial exemptions. So you were like kind of part qualified when you finish the degree. But I didn't go on to then study for the further exams. I did. Like, as soon as I came out of university, I did the financial advisor exam. So it was a qualified financial adviser by the time I finished up my mom's.

Jason Butler 24:01
But you make the interesting point that you continue to study even while you're working. And you change jobs according to where the fit was for you. And I think we shouldn't ever be embarrassed or afraid or worried about it's not about being unloyal. And committed, it's if it's not right for you, and it's probably not right for the employer, right. So you need to be moving around according to what's right for you and the employer, because they don't want to have an employee that's either come to the end of the road with them. What's your thoughts about that? Being prepared to try new things and go down different routes and not be embarrassed to sort of switch things up in your early years?

Laura Janes 24:37
I think I think like it's almost essential because coming out of university, how would you really know exactly what you want to do? I kind of wish I'd done more and change more and tried even more different things, but I think I've only had the confidence, you know, coming into my kind of mid 30s. And now I'm 40. Now to have that call. But it's to try those things to set up the business to take the risk to do those different things. And I think the more younger people can try different things at the start, the more competence that's going to give them to make the right choices earlier on.

Jason Butler 25:13
Now, I'm really interested to know how you made the transition from employee have begun organizations, I know you work for your mum for a little bit. So you kind of did your apprenticeship, if you will, and in sort of the coalface so you know, what a small business is like, but but how you made that transition from the big company, the corporate life, to setting up your own business, and also what you learn in that process?

Laura Janes 25:37
Yeah, I think for like, most of the time, like, ever since I started working, I was forever trying to work out what I wanted to be. And I think that's can be a common story for lots of people that working out what you want to be seems to go on for ages and ages and ages. And I learned I like kind of, like, I guess I learned by what we were just talking about when making mistakes by doing stuff, but not being quite right. And then you know, trying something different. I think the difficulty is when you get into a big corporate, and you've got those golden handcuffs, that salary, the pension and everything else, it's incredibly difficult to then break free and start from scratch. And the actual thing that gave me confidence in the end was actually a failure. So when I was, I think I just had my son, Henry, so it will be going back eight or nine years. I just I was I'm very into goal setting. So like, you know, setting your goals for the next year, set your goals for next five years mood boarding all of that lovely stuff, I really believe in having clarity on those things. And I decided that I was gonna launch this goal setting app I had, you know, permission from my company that I was doing this as a kind of a project. And I was kind of hoping that I was going to build this app, and then you know, make loads of money from it, you know, becoming a millionaire. And that was going to be my business. Like as it as it turned out like that the app was fine. It kind of worked. It washed it space, just about didn't make my millions. But I just learned an incredible amount. In terms of setting that business up, I built a brand I learned loads of technology staff, worked with agencies had to launch it did some press, all of those sorts of things. And although that was a failure, I could see how you could get something from starting up to finishing. And then actually getting the confidence to set up my own company, I was then trying to work out what it was like what I really wanted to run my own business. I've got a couple of kids now. I've done my corporate staff, I want to run my own business. So what is it? And I actually went back to my mom's to see like, or do I take her? Do you know, do I come and run the company with her and take over eventually. And I realized, working with her that actually the stuff that she really needed where I had the skill set was the marketing side of things. And so I started working with her about on her marketing side of things, she invited me to a talk there was actually at the CIA si to talk to other financial planners about what I had done for her. And then out of that people were going, Oh, well, what's your day rate, and I was like, I don't have a day rate. I've got a normal job. And that was then enough to go, Oh, this is this is the thing, this is it. And so it in terms of figuring out what I was supposed to do, it was just loads of tests and learn and quite a lot of failing, if I'm honest, you know, lots of successes too. But you have to make mistakes, do the stuff wrong to kind of work out what the right thing is.

Jason Butler 28:47
And Laura, you make such a great point, which is why I'm so pleased that you shared that in that way. We I think one of the things where people get ahead financially, and I don't know, defining what that success is because that it's different things to different people but those who get ahead financially are quite up for making mistakes. They're quite up for having what I call Miss learnings or missteps. As long as it's not reckless, and you haven't put everything on one, you know, throw the dice. And I think that point you made there is that you weren't afraid to make some mistakes. You felt like you knew once you figured out kind of which direction. So so therefore then you decided that marketing was you now this, let's be honest, starting a business at any time is tough. But you started your business, was it about eight or nine years ago? No, four years ago? Oh for you, but you started your business. You've got young kids, okay, you're using the very nice trappings of corporate life. I mean, how do you how do you navigate that?

Laura Janes 29:44
I think like, you have to decide like what risk level you're prepared to take. And I knew that when I started, I knew what I knew my mom would give me some business which is not I knew I could, I knew I had one other client for sure from doing that talk. And I knew there was demand. And so I, back to the spreadsheets, always a spreadsheet, Jason did the spreadsheet, what do I need to do to pay my mortgage, and, you know, pay the minimum bills, and I just calculated on that. And I got to a point where I was confident that I could pay those bills just about. And so that was enough for me to take, take the leap, and then you just have to have the confidence that the rest is going to work itself out. I mean, the child thing as well, like the one thing about running your own businesses, yes, I probably work more hours, but I work them on my terms. So if I need to stop to, you know, go and do the school run or go to a school play, I can stop, I can just make up the time later. And so actually, I think, you know, running a business for mothers, if it's set up in the right way, it can be, you know, quite a flexible way of doing things,

Jason Butler 30:59
or fathers who want to spend more time with their children. You know, remember, my children were small, I always worked from home. This is years ago, when we had dial up modems. For the internet. I used to always be home on Tuesdays and Fridays, that was it. I never had meetings. So it is possible. It's not just about women, it's also guys, and particularly in this day and age now we're much more aware of it. It's about designing that life, isn't it? So actually, for you the freedom of running your business didn't literally mean you work less or it was easier, but he just was more flexible. So interesting. How did you and it's an interesting one and an answer as you were as you feel comfortable to taking partners on these journeys. Over the years, obviously, I've had to bring my wife along with me on all the harebrained schemes and ideas that I come up with because there's an entrepreneur or a business person or a gift or someone who's very goal focused you can you can often leave people in a heat can't new, like sort of trying to catch up, whether it's your partner, whether it's your employees, or whether it's your friends. So how did you? Is your was your husband or partner really onside from day one? Or did you take some convincing?

Laura Janes 32:01
It's a very interesting question, Jason, because I'm actually like, literally just getting divorced. Oh,

that's to be fair to him at the time, he was supportive, if a bit apprehensive I'd always been kind of the higher earner in the relationship. I think what I setting up a business does change you as well. Like it's a it's a growth journey. And so you're right, I think you have to bring your partner along with you. And it can be challenging if you're doing you know, very different jobs, actually, my my partner now runs his own business as well. And I do think you know, that makes it easier in some ways, because we talk about we were talking on the same level, we're talking about the same things. And so I think you're right, you do have to be really careful in terms of how you bring your partner along. Maybe I'm not the best person to give advice on how you do that.

Jason Butler 33:04
So given all the work that you do in financial services, and all that deep experience you had working with your mum in her business, and you obviously through osmosis have picked up all of her what she stands for in financial planning. What are you doing as a mom as a parent to try and help your children develop good life skills and a good relationship with money so that money is their servant not the master?

Laura Janes 33:26
Oh, that's a really interesting question like my little boys nine Henry and my little girl six are Abella I probably like I believe, like, where we went, where we started in terms of I think with money clarity is really important in terms of where your destination is, and where you want to get to, I definitely do that kind of goal setting side of things with them in terms of what they want and where they want to be and where do we want to go on holiday and all of those sorts of things. And we do try and encourage them to kind of save some of their you know, Christmas or money and that sort of thing. They've got a go Henry card. Have you heard of those witches, you know that that helps them to save on a kind of card that they can then spend on in shops. So some of those sorts of things as well,

Jason Butler 34:17
to practical things, but also positive for messages without it. A no doubt having the brochures and marketing material of all the firms that you work for who are selling financial planning services. Hopefully they're going to pick that up over as they have their cornflakes in the morning. I said Oh, Mom, I like but I like the value proposition statement on this one. So tell us now I'm really fascinated. What is it you've learned about money as a result of also again, what is it you've learned about money as a result of working with all these wonderful financial planning firms and you do work with some fantastic firms? What is it you've learned about the role of money, making good decisions from the work, the marketing work you've done and the positioning work and the branding work that you've done this Some of the UK Top financial planning firms,

Laura Janes 35:03
I think one of the biggest things I've learned is about how emotional money is and how money is kind of intrinsically linked to all of the things that we want to do, and we want to achieve and how it can, you know, give you that financial freedom. And I guess, with money, like it's how you do one thing is how you do everything, as they say, and I think, you know, I can see when you set the right money habits, when you set the right money, goals, all of it works out, it's like fitness, you set the right if you do the set the right goals, and then you do all the things you're supposed to do, then you get relief, better, and all of those sorts of things. I think, but I love the idea of you know that money is a tool for achieving your best life and all of those kinds of messages. One thing I've learned about marketing, though, is that people, people don't think like that they're looking for a solution to their problems they're looking for, you know, how do I fix this issue with my pension? What should I do with my investment is very product focused. And so trying to message around that achieve your best life and all of those sorts of things has to be done very carefully. Because that side of things is often achieved in the face to face kind of one to one meeting, rather than in the initial marketing.

Jason Butler 36:22
Yeah. And people don't know what they don't know, do they? It's a bit like, the analogy I would give is, I've just finished this big self build project, I've been building a house in my garden, like, like you do. And what I did lots of research, he wasn't until I met the builder, who actually did all the groundwork. And the finishing off because I had another company built the structure. He came and asked me so many questions, I hadn't even thought of that I suddenly thought, ah, and it, that's the role of sometimes of using a professional with your affairs are more complicated, or you don't have a lot of time, all the all, the impact of getting it wrong is really, really severe. Or it's just too complex, or you're inheriting money, or any of those things. It's only a financial professional, who's walked through that path many times before, who can truly ask you smart questions. But more importantly, listen and help you make sense of what you're saying.

Laura Janes 37:11
The main people, a lot of the people I work with are the founders of the financial planning businesses who are often still seeing clients. And the common theme with them is that they have incredible interpersonal skills, incredible listening skills, incredible kind of coaching skills, really. And if you can find someone like that, who can work with you to kind of help you express what your needs are, and everything else, you know that that's a brilliant thing for your whole money situation, because then you're going to get what you want.

Jason Butler 37:42
Alright, before I let you go, I want you to give me if you can give me your insight, you have worked with these firms, let's say someone out there is looking to work with a financial professional or financial planner, somebody can help them make sense of their money. And you know, don't want to go and use a robo service and they've their affairs, perhaps maybe a bit more complicated. What would you be your top tips for how to choose the right firm for you that makes sense, both emotionally, financially, and practically?

Laura Janes 38:08
I think one of the biggest things I've discovered as well from kind of doing the research with the clients of our financial businesses, as well as people, by your values, so you've got to find someone whose values fit with your values. And so the kind of business that has the same values that you do and values the same things is really important. And I do also believe in for, like, most of those we work with have really good accreditation, like they're accredited. You know, with the CSI or they have the CFP, I think those, the firms that do that seem to be the ones who put in all of the right processes and everything else as well. So I think that's worth looking out for. And the firms that I find work really well and successful do have a really good process. So under, like, ask them about what is the process and if they can tell you that in a succinct and and understandable way, they're probably going to be a reasonable firm, if it's if it sounds like really confusing, and you've got no idea what they're actually going to do. That's probably a bad sign. So yeah, it's looking out for those things. And just like the personality fits as well, it's so important.

Jason Butler 39:21
But you've got to trust people and you've got to feel their intentions runnable. And one of the things is if someone says to it's going to cost 15,000 pounds a year to look after your affairs, that sounds a lot if just on the face of it, because you aren't paying anything at the moment or perhaps you're paying it in different ways. But actually, as you say, digging a bit deeper and finding out okay, what does good look like what is it I'm looking for from a relationship I think is often the thing and I would always say there's a great concept I've got on my website, it's called the expectations conversation. And it's just a conversation you can have with someone for anything, whether it's a lawyer, or a marketing expert, or someone who's going to clean your house you can just sit down so very simple thing about what they can expect what you can expect what you think they have a right expecting you agree there and you sign up to their expectations because expectations is really I think that's the key thing is unhappiness. And it comes from when people's expectations are different to what the reality. So, Laura, thank you for your time you are a superstar and I love watching. You see your business grow. And if you want to find out some of the top financial planning firms, I think floor you've got a whole case. Have you got a client roster think of firms that you've worked with on your website? Yeah, we've got some of our case studies on the website. Yeah, it's not all of them. It is some firms and you can bet your bottom dollar if there's a financial planning firm profiled on Laura's website, they've got to be top jaw because she is reassuringly expensive. And I mean it in the nicest way. Not saying you're expensive, but you know, she she's a top quality firm, and she does good work for good people. And, and that's the mark of the thing, that if someone's prepared to spend proper money, with experts in anything, whether it's the law, marketing, processes, training, whatever it is, it's a good, it's a good sign that that firms investing in the future. And I suppose really, that's what it's all about as an investing in the future. So Laura, before I let you go, what do you want to leave us with? What one piece of advice would you about money that you've learned in your 40 years that you want to share with everyone?

Laura Janes 41:14
I guess, really simply start with that clarity thing, decide, commit, do what you need to do, do what you know the habits you're supposed to do from a money point of view, and then you'll succeed. That's it

Jason Butler 41:26
by the inch. It's a cinch for the yard. It's fun, small steps. Laura, fantastic. Thank you ever so much for your time. It's been great having you on the show. Appreciate it. Thanks, Jason. Thanks for listening to real money stories with me, Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 13 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested

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