61. Robyn Laidlaw Keeps Money Simple

This week, I speak to Robyn Laidlaw, Head of Distribution, Europe for Vanguard Asset Management.

Born and raised in New Zealand, with nine-year residency in Australia, Robyn now lives in the UK, heading Vanguard’s sales and servicing activities within the UK market and across Europe.

Robyn shares her mindset that you have to take personal responsibility for three areas: your life, your financial situation and how you develop your career.

She also talks about how her family have found it useful to have money experiences that they can have a shared understanding and an emotional commitment to. If this is something you think your family could benefit from some help with, get in touch with my Generation Next consultancy via the website.

Some great insights from a lovely lady who is setting a great example for women aspiring to leadership roles.

Episode Transcript

0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less, and enjoy life more.

Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down, as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Hello there, Jason here. And thanks for joining me on another edition of the Real Money Stories podcast. Before we get into this week's interview, I just want to share a few thoughts and ideas and also some new content that I've created for you. Now in the UK over the last couple of weeks, and I'm sure this is the same if you're living outside the UK and other countries, but there's been various reports that there's going to be a reform of capital gains tax. And there's also been some suggestions that a wealth tax or a temporary tax on people's assets over certain bigger 1 million, 2 million pounds, whatever is going to be the way forward or certainly what the Chancellor should be thinking of to pay for the Coronavirus support schemes. Now, this is the problem in all countries all around the world, that they've all got this problem of having to spend out lots of money to support people where they can't work, or their industries are being disrupted. And someone's got to pay for it. And it's this age old thing, you know, do we tax workers? Do we tax property? Should it be the rich? Should it be the poor? And certainly those who are more vulnerable in society have a bearing the biggest Brunt? Certainly at the moment. But there's always this problem isn't there about fairness? Is fairness of opportunity, equality of opportunity? Is it fair to you know, you pay tax on all the money that you've created, and you're showing thrifter responsibility and you've saved and you've gone without, etc, and then someone comes along and take some of it? Well, look, this obviously podcast is not a political podcast. And it's not for me to say, really, and talk about those things in a lot of detail. Just to say this, look, you can't control what is going to happen with taxes.

And taxes is just one of those things, it's just the cost of doing business is the cost of living, it's a it's just the cost of being in a decent society, sometimes those taxes are high. And sometimes those taxes are lower. And sometimes they're in between. So what I would say to you is this wherever you are in the world, except that taxes are going to go up one way or another, okay?

And look at it like any cost, the costs go up, sometimes in some areas, and sometimes they go down. Now you can think about shopping around. And you might be in a situation where you can live in any country in the world and move your assets and so on. But start First of all, not with where you can live or what situation you can be in to get the lowest tax, but think about where you're going to be the happiest and what makes sense for you, your family, and your well being first, and then think about being tax efficient. And when it comes to taxes, here's the thing, you've got to be making money first and have accumulated money first, before you need to worry about it. So for those of you who are high earners, or you've built serious wealth, I'd strongly recommend that you make sure you have a proper chartered tax advisor, not an accountant who does your books or the bookkeeper or someone who dabbles and does the old way or the lawyer or something. But someone who is a chartered tax advisor that's in the UK, similar situations outside of the UK, because a chartered tax advisor is someone who really understands tax as opposed to just dabbles in it, as opposed to doing your tax return or doing book work. So really worth happening. And if you're not super high earner, you're not super wealthy. There are tons and tons of tax opportunities, tax angles, whether it's matched employer contributions, whether it's tax relief on retirement contributions, sometimes you get deductibles on loans, there's lots of ways that you can benefit. If you're not super wealthy, just just making sure that you make use of the allowances that are out there. So tax you can't control wherever you are on the spectrum. But it's just a cost that you need to manage. Sometimes you can manage that, you know, very aggressively and sometimes it doesn't make sense but start with the end in mind. What sort of lifestyle Do you want to live? Where do you want to live? What makes you happy? So as I say, life is never fair. No one said it would be you just have to plan with what you've got. So there we go.

Now interestingly, this this week's Instagram Live was all about investing in startups, which is something I've got experience of doing a checkered past. But some some my investments have bombed, never to be seen again, and the investments and the money went with them, and others have done fantastically well. And some are sort of in on the way to doing very well. So startups is not for the on the uninitiated, it's not for you if you haven't got your basic sorted out. But it can be interesting. So check out that on Instagram Live at JB the wealth meme, you can listen to the recording again, on Instagram. It's only half an hour. And I just talk you through the highs and lows. And I talk all about different types of startups and whether that's family businesses and stuff. So check that one out as it's an interesting area. So there's a lot spoken about that area, but I don't think always by people who know what they're talking about. So check them out. And this week's blog is all about really are you or your family leaving anyone a mess in the event of you dying or getting ill? That's really about the whole issue of wills, powers of attorneys and pension nominations. And if you're outside the UK, there'll be similar things in your country, no doubt. But the point here is that no one wants to think about dying or getting ill. But here's the thing, if you deal with that stuff, if you if you put in place and get paperwork sorted, and it doesn't have to cost a lot and doesn't take long now with online systems, there's no excuse, you know, making sure your affairs are tidy in the event of the unforeseen. It's just just sensible. It's it's making sure that no one's leaving you a mess in your family to deal with and that you're not leaving anyone else a mess. And there's something magical that happens when you get what I call the the unglamorous bits of paper sorted out the important

And that's it. So now this week's interview is with the senior individual who basically runs Vanguard as you know, Vanguard sponsors this podcast. And I wanted to have Robyn Laidlaw on because she's a very interesting lady. very accomplished, she's got to, basically, she heads up the whole of Vanguard in the UK in Europe. Very smart lady, very humble. And it was nice to catch up with her and have a quick chat and get her to share her money, thoughts and ideas. So that's this week. And I hope you enjoy it. So let's get over and speak and hear what Robyn's got to say.

Hello, thanks for joining me on another edition of Real Money Stories, the weekly podcast where we talk to people about their money journey, their money experiences, and what they've learned about money. This week, I'm really excited to be joined by Robyn Laidlaw, who is watching tell you what she does. But she works for a company that I've had a lot of regard and respect for since I started investing many years ago. And I must just a disclosure, I have a significant amount of my family's money invested in Vanguard funds. But that is not to be seen as a recommendation. They are one of really companies out there. So anyway, enough about that, Robyn. Hello.

9:20
Hi, Jason, thank you very much for that warm welcome and for having me on your programme. So just a brief introduction. I'm my role at Vanguard on head of distribution for our European business. So working really with clients and our sales and servicing activities across Europe, and that includes the UK market, where as you may know, we've worked for about a decade now with financial advisors, and we sort of are expanding that presence into various parts of continental Europe as well.

9:55
You're gradually taking over the world ya know? Robyn, let's go back to the beginning. Now, obviously, you're not from the UK by the sounds of it. So tell us, you know what it was like growing up, where you grew up, and you know, your early experiences of money and what it was like in your family?

10:14
Mm hmm. Yeah. So you're right. I'm not from the UK. I've been in the UK for about five years and did live in the UK, also back in the 90s. But I hail from New Zealand originally, and also spent nine years actually living in Melbourne, Australia, and was with Vanguard there before I came to the UK with them five years ago. So growing up in New Zealand, like many Kiwis, I had a rural upbringing. So I was raised on a farm in the northern part of New Zealand, and it was a dairy farm. So my parents are, you know, owned and operated that and we lived in a reasonably small farming community. And I think, you know, the experiences you get in life and related to money in that sort of childhood in that sort of upbringing in that sort of community. You know, just really the basic ones about the power of hard work, I think it really instilled that in me because it is a lot of work to, to run a farm.

And also, you know, just that some of the best things in life can be the most simple things in life. So we, you know, we lived in a beautiful place, I was lucky to grow up in a beautiful free country, near beaches and things like that. And so, you know, life was fairly simple. And also, I would say, you know, my parents started, like most of their generation with nothing, and managed to get into farming and built their way up from there. So it was a very modest simple childhood and upbringing and a lot of their values in that. And a lot of the experiences in that probably really informed how I think about money.

12:16
Interesting. And I do know that dairy farming is not for the faint hearted. Definitely. Where you are those two things I'd like to know about that. First of all, were you expected to take part in work around the farm? And what impact if you did, did that have on you? But secondly, what conversations if any, were Did you ever hear when you were young about money around the dinner table in the family?

12:39
Well, on the working front, I think we were probably like most kids raised on farms, expected to contribute to general things going on, you know, around running the farm, but I wouldn't say there was a huge expectation that we contributed in a major way. So it might be things like, you know, this great independence on a farm, but you know, going on the motorbike to get cows in at the end of the day, or just going in generally helping with things like driving a tractor during haymaking. So, you know, fantastic experiences for young person in terms of independence as well. So we, you know, or feeding animals or whatever it might have been, so there's always something to do. And we could play a role, but I don't think, you know, my parents expectation was that those things came before the things that we might be otherwise interested in pursuing. So, you know, belonging to lots of sports clubs, or, you know, these kinds of activities, that and school that that always came before, the way that we contributed around the farm. In terms of how I might have heard money spoken about. I think it was really the realization of the value of money and the difficulty for them in borrowing money to be essentially business owners, and then being very thoughtful around money and very conservative with money. And you know, that, that teaches you a lot about just, you know, thinking about cost, thinking about what you can do with and what you can do without and remembering that, you know, you can get a lot of pleasure out of also spending money on things that bring you value of its new clothes or whatever it was, you know, those things. Were always valued by buyers, if that makes sense. But you really got the understanding of the appreciation of the basics versus the incremental.

14:54
So you are a very early age, you understood that there was a role of work money. Didn't come easy. But equally you were destiny. You know, your destiny could be determined by yourself because your parents were self made, right? That started with nothing. So what about in your teenage years? But that's always a difficult time for people I can remember being a teenager and I know look with. And I think about teenagers now, it's a difficult time because you're growing up, you're finding out who you are, you want connection, you are influenced by your peers. How did you navigate the teenage years in terms of spending earning money? You know, that sort of stuff, socializing? What have you?

15:32
Yeah, well, like most teenagers, I worked and some money during those years, and that was great. We had actually moved to a different part of New Zealand during, you know, my latter teenage years. And it was actually a big kiwifruit growing regions. So that was, you know, again, Rural Employment, but the sourcing of kiwi fruit in a big shed, you know, so you looked at them all day, sorted them and went to sleep at night seeing them. And, you know, working on kiwifruit farms out tours, as well. Also doing work like lots of young people do in terms of bar work, and those sorts of things, as I sort of was in my late teens, so it was important, you know, to get out there and earn my own money and do those sorts of things in the holidays. And that was that was the type of work available to me. And you know, I've got great memories of doing that.

16:33
And no doubt you don't you're not keen on kiwi fruit these days. But then. So how did you were you in your later teen years? Were you a natural saver? Or were you more of a spender? Or? Or were you somewhere? Did you oscillate between the two? Did you did you sense your money identity coming out and making himself known at that stage?

16:55
I think I would say in my latter teens, young adult years, it was all about having fun, and doing what you wanted to do. sighs say I was more of a spender and a saver. But obviously, within the constraints of what I had access to myself. And I think, you know, that was that was a good lesson, you know, you had to get by on what you had made, or maybe some help in different ways from my parents, but certainly not in relation to credit. I, you know, I feel fortunate that I'm from a generation where credit was just not a thing. It just, it wasn't available to young people in the way that it is today. So it was much more about getting by with, you know, with what you had. Right?

17:44
And did you go to university or college or whatever? I'm not sure the system in New Zealand is like, did you did you go to higher education?

17:51
Yes, I did. I did that. And so that was, you know, a prime opportunity of a way where, you know, I got some assistant for systems from my parents just to continue to study. But you know, continue to do part time work and holiday work then as well.

18:09
So it must have been tough, though, for your parents to support you and run a business and support you through college or uni. I mean, did you? Did you have to take on any borrowing? Or did you just use mum and dad's money? And whatever the government might have helped? Or, or the free tuition? Or I don't know, how did you navigate? How did you come through that in one piece is really what I'm thinking of? Where did you go?

18:28
Yeah, I think it's a great question. And, you know, I've got three children, two of whom are her, two of whom are at University here in the UK. And so it was just a different system, you know, in Britain, but in New Zealand as well, in those days where you got paid to go to study. And you know, you You didn't have to take on all these big grants and loans to pay fees. So that was just very fortunate. So it was far more easy to get by as a young person, because really, what you wanted was a bit of income for having fun, and having a bit of freedom. So nowhere near as taxing as it is on young people today.

19:14
But so thinking about when you came out of uni, did you What did you so you were relatively whole you weren't in the hole when it comes to decks and stuff, but you weren't. You had an accumulated loads of money, you done some work, so that's fine. But what did you do when you left uni? Did you sort of travel world or did you go straight into the, you know, into work or what did you do?

19:35
Yeah, I will. I initially went straight into work and actually started in the education sector in education administration for, I guess, an entity that aligned ultimately to the museum Ministry of Education, and did what was known in those days as a cadetship. But it's probably more like an inter what we would call an internship today. Where you've got the chance to sort of work around various parts of this business and really finding, you know, where you settled the best. So that for me also meant a move away from home and move into Auckland, and moving into a dead house. And you know, more financial independence. Well, I mean, complete independence, to be honest, I think the, the expectation of my parents and the only expectation I would have had for myself is, you know, living independently and financially supporting myself once I was in the workforce.

20:36
But that can be a baptism of fire for lots of people. I know when I was young, my 20s I mean, I was a train wreck as well known I had 30 grands worth of unsecured non mortgage debt, right? And negative equity and people chasing me for money. How did you? How did you deal with that transition of breaking your umbilical cord? If I can use that term from the parents to suddenly paying your own bills, the world of work all the temptations that are there? How did that all work out? I mean, did it go swimmingly? Or did you have a few a few mishaps and missteps?

21:06
I think, you know, the mishaps and missteps would be more the, you know, living pay days to pay day, so you can go out for your next nice house, which is always a priority on your paycheck, you know, but I think, you know, sharing houses with other young adults, you're all in the same situation in terms of your income and your requirements to pay bills. And I don't, I don't know, maybe rent was a smaller portion of our income, I'm not sure. But somehow it all came together. And I managed to, you know, get a car that was probably my first asset, if you like, and fast depreciating one, as we all know, but, you know, that was also a means of learning to pay something off. And, you know, that was an early introduction as well to if you know, getting something of bigger value to your name, paying it off. Learning to do that and be responsible for that. Somehow, it all came together, I just have a memory of it being more paydays payday sometimes, definitely not about saving, unless you count paying off a car as some form of savings. But not, it was not really about any kind of financial disaster apart from not having enough money to go out.

22:29
So here we go, I've got the priorities, having a good time and having world where I'm loving it, it's similar to me, nothing is gonna get your priorities right. But here's the thing, you took some finance for that car, didn't you? And your mom and dad were not debt type people. So how did that happen?

22:44
I think, you know, they were just keen that that was a valuable lesson for me as well, to have the responsibility and to understand that it's interesting, you know, this kind of conversation does make you think back about those things. And also, having your own children having young adults myself now makes me think about these things and these kinds of lessons. But I think there was, you know, without an explicit conversation, there was probably an implicit understanding that the main goal in life was that we would be financially independent and obviously, happy, healthy young adults, my sisters and I, but you know, that we would go off and make our way and be financially independent, and certainly, you know, getting a car, I think, they might have helped me towards a small deposit for that, but it was really my responsibility to, to buy it and then pay for it.

23:47
Um, so, okay, so we had the wheels, we had the job, we had the socializing we were we at this stage weren't building wealth, other than paying off the car loan. How did it then progress? I mean, did you did you did you see a very, very fast rise in your income, but also in regards to what happened to the income? How did your lifestyle costs change in relation to your earning capability? Because that's obviously a quite a fan. Forgot an interesting point for people in their 20s.

24:15
Yeah, so in my, you know, after working just for a few years, like many young New Zealanders, I wanted to do what we call the Oh II thing, the overseas experience. And that was about, you know, coming to the UK, and that's where I have, you know, family heritage as well. So it meant a lot to come and experience life, living and working in London. And so I think, you know, again, the financial journey for that, it continued in terms of really thinking about work as a means of funding different experiences in life, be they travel, be they you know, social interactions. It was really about that stage in life in my early 20s. When I when I came to London initially. And then, you know, during my time working, I guess, you know, around my mid 20s, I really sort of started to think about more about what I didn't want to be doing workwise. And I don't recall quite how but did set my sights on getting into the city of London, I just felt, gosh, that looks like we're in a really interesting place to be working at seems exciting, it seems different. And I was really lucky to, you know, get initially a contract position with a great investment management firm in London, and really moved from what I was doing was, which was this, you know, where I had come out of my, the start of my career was very accounting based work without being a qualified accountant. And that enabled a foot in the door at an asset manager in London, and a step from contracting to permanent, and really the start of a career building into asset management. And you know, that as well has meant, over the years a sort of change and progression and roles, and therefore income and rewards and things like that.

26:24
Now, there's two points that I think you make there that are really good and worth just restating for listeners is that first of all, when you're very young, you don't have to have the career or mapped out or be a really enormous saver, I mean, by all means, ideally, avoid debt and spending more than you've got. But the experiences you have as a young person will set you up for later life, and they're very enriching. So they're just as important earning, but also, this concept that you what you start out your career doing doesn't have to define where you want to go, because you went from education to the financial services sector. I mean, they're completely separate, right? I mean, in reality, so they're there to great life lessons. And then, okay, so. So the career in the in financial services. Did that. Was that just a meteoric rise to the top? Or was that? Was there a few detours along the way? And how, how did that change? Did you? Did you start to go from being paycheck to paycheck to starting to sort of build some savings and be more intentional about money? Or did you just carry on with your work? Yeah, I

27:24
like the way you summarize those life lessons. And the other thing I think I often say to young people starting out in the finance industry is there's almost a front entry to some jobs, which is graduate programs or, you know, advertised roles that might be the absolute desired job you on, but don't also ignore just getting started somewhere in a great company. And working hard and using your initiative. And these kinds of things will take you a long way. And it's a marathon and not a sprint, as well. So, you know, build that over time. So my experience was, you know, having got into this investment management firm in London, initially, you know, what you would call sort of, I guess, more middle office responsibilities. You know, thinking about the funds, I had a treasury placement, responsibility, that opened up responsibilities, we move into the front office and work really as the assistant to the investment director of our private client team. And that was wonderful for me, because it really switched me to the side of the business that was client facing. And I knew, then I had a great interest in doing that. And working with clients, and working with, you know, investment solutions for those clients. So that that really led to a point where, around my mid 20s, I decided Actually, it was time to head back to New Zealand, I'd had five years in London, I met my husband in London, he's British, and he was also up for the move to New Zealand. So we moved back to New Zealand and from a career perspective, I think what that meant is moving from a really large and thriving financial services industry and to really was or was, especially then a much more modest one. And that also coincided with you know, a decade I guess, where we had our three children arriving into the family so for me, it was always about working, but less about career progression over balancing time at home with them and you know, their arrival but always keeping a hand and and continuing to progress those those roles for the industry. Until You know, eventually we made the move from New Zealand to Australia. And I joined Vanguard, which is 14 years ago. And I think since then it's been much more of a, you know, a stepping up through different roles and progressing career wise. And of course, as a result of that different financial goals as well.

30:18
Just two points, I'd just like to touch on briefly if we can there, Robin, is, how did you manage the merger or finances between you and your husband? Because that's a point of contention for many people, you know, some people don't have the conversation about finance, isn't that what I keep them very separate? Or, you know what I mean, that's a difficult one for people, or they just fall into the roles, and they kind of assume values and similar goals? And secondly, how have you gone about trying to teach your children money values? Because that's a that's an interesting one, all on its own, isn't it?

30:51
So, from my husband, perspective, you know, I think we came from very similar families, as people tend to with someone you marry in terms of values and thinking around money. So we never sort of thought about it is separate, we always just thought about it, as you know, something that was shared between us equally, and it's never been an issue from that perspective. You know, that's my personal perspective. I know, you know, I have friends and others I know, who think quite differently about it. And I respect those different views. That's how it was, for us. How you teach the children about money is, is complex, because my children have had a very different upbringing and experience than I had, you know, being born in New Zealand, spending a lot of their school years in Australia, and then coming to the UK, to finish their schooling. So it has been very different. And they've had a working Mum, and, you know, and a working dad as well, but it's just been different for them, I guess. And so, it is always hard to think have I got this balance right between making it too easy, and, you know, helping them along, in a logical sort of way. So I think the as I mentioned, to university, one, still at high school, so it's still something I continue to think about, and trying to educate them more than anything about some of the values of associated with money and long term savings. And hopefully, those messages will sink in and stick at some point.

32:43
And just two things, if you wouldn't mind commenting on it is one is the role of women in, in the workplace in terms of careers, and earning and how they juggle being a mom and and running a family because there is more pressure on a woman then there is necessarily on a man, rightly or wrongly. But also, secondly, your views on how men and women differ. Or perhaps you and your husband have differed in terms of how you think about investing, because there is lots of evidence that show that women having more of a natural nurturing gene perhaps see investing as was perhaps risky, and they're more focused on the downsides, whereas men are focused on the upside. So just wonder what your thoughts are on those two points. Yeah,

33:29
I think it's a potentially very contentious question. But it's interesting, I think, you know, in our family's situation, and reflecting on us as individuals, I've probably always had more of an interest in the investing and the money than my husband has, and therefore played a bigger role in it, and he's happy for it to be so we will always aligned on the fact we wanted to own our own home. And that's something we did when we returned from London to New Zealand. And, you know, again, just very fortunate in terms of our generation that that was very achievable and quite central Auckland, when we were around 30 years old. We never thought about that as an investment. It's sort of has shifted that way a little bit in people's minds because of the way that property values have increased. We really just thought about it as a lifestyle choice. And I think the other big influence on ours aside from you know, my interest and different public offers that came to market during different times we were living in New Zealand or living in Australia, was really our shift to Australia and becoming part of the Australian superannuation system as you know, young working parents. This just had such a move. meaningful outcome on our financial future. And I think, you know, a real fan of the system, there's no retirement system that is perfect. But whichever way people do it, if they can just accumulate during those years, into really diversified assets and get an exposure to growth assets, put it out of sight, out of mind, continually save, obviously, watch their fees, make sure their fees alone, get some good advice, I mean, this, this leads to really significant outcomes, because it's just a stage, I think, in your life where we both realized, raising three children and paying a mortgage, it can be really hard to find anything additional to be putting aside for, you know, investing. So the beauty of the Australian system is, of course, it's just taken from payroll, and you never see it, and it's gone and locked up until you can access it. And, you know, I think we were both very appreciative of, of how much that played a role. And we really made the most of maximizing the tax allowances we had every year or the contribution limits into that system. And that's, you know, I would say financially, and outcomes wise, that's been one of the biggest things.

36:25
Yeah, and most countries have some form of tax favored long term savings account, we call it pension retirement investment pot, whatever it is. So what you're saying is getting going with just something as long as you were on a stable footing, just getting going with some regular savings into sort of a diversified fund or fund of funds or something with low fees, that's tax advantage, possibly gets employer contributions, or government bonuses or whatever, that has been a really good move for you. Because you've compounded it, you've you've got used to spending the money. And you've got used to seeing that as an expense. That's not optional. It's just something you do. Right. So that's that's helped you that name. So what would you just as we sort of sum up, then what would you sum up what you would have what you would tell your 18 year old self as your sort of money wisdom, your top three or four tips that you wish you'd known or rather, that you would tell your 18 year old self? If you could go back? You know, in time, yeah, I

37:24
think it's just to really appreciate the power of the compounding. And get started as soon as you can, even with minimal amounts, and find a way to put things away that you can't access to enjoy money, because you know, the experiences that you have in terms of, I look back and think about, you know, the holidays, we've taken with the kids, the prioritization of always getting my children back to New Zealand to see family, etc. These are irreplaceable experiences in life. So it's right to prioritize them, even if it seems a luxurious choice at the time, you know, do make make memories and enjoy the money you've made, if you've worked hard for it, and in whatever way that enjoyment comes to you. And I think worry less about debt as a young person, I think, you know, I certainly come from a time where we were much more cautious about borrowing to buy something that sorry, let me clarify that worry less about debt on an appreciating asset. And I do think this next generation is probably too comfortable with detonates, you know, I'd really worried that it's too easily available to people and all the wrong forms. But I think for things like getting started with your own home, you know, it seems a big step when you get going. But you know, just chip away at it over the years. And particularly now we're in a very low rate environment. You know, I appreciate housing is a real mountain for young people in today's environment, but, you know, get going with it from a lifestyle choice, but with a debt repayment plan, and you know, debt will help you get there. So it's not always a bad thing to take it on. If that makes sense. It just

39:25
depends on the consumption and stuff that you don't go down versus acid that you're gonna need a house to live in this whole time. Yeah,

39:34
yeah. And that's right. Being mindful of debt for consumption. Absolutely. Yeah. Yeah. And it hasn't been relevant for us. But I think also just for others, you know, the need to make sure that you think about your biggest asset, which for most people is your future income.

39:53
And if your family Yeah, yeah. Good. Well, Robin, I know you're busy. I'm very grateful for your spending time. And also, we're very pleased about you sponsoring the podcast because we want to really break the taboo of talking about money. We want to break down the barriers to people building prosperity and wealth. You're absolutely right. You do need to have a balance between building for the future and enjoying life and memories and experiences now. And, you know, thank you for being on Keep up the good work. And we'll we'll watch of interest. Vanguard continuing to do it's good stuff and make investing easy for people. Thanks for being on the show.

40:30
Thank you very much for hosting me, Jason.

40:37
Well, that was a nice chat was it, nice lady. Hope you enjoyed hearing Robyn, some interesting takeaways that I found there was this idea that you have to take personal responsibility for your life, your financial situation, and how you use money, and how you develop your career. That's really important. And we've heard that on previous episodes, haven't we. But what was really interesting was I like that point when Robyn said, there's no need to have all of your life in your career mapped out. And I really do believe in that is real as well, because I think sometimes we get a bit hung up, don't we on having it all mapped out, or we should be at a certain place. And she made that point, didn't she that where you start out in your career or your life doesn't necessarily mean to dictate where you're going to end up or even what direction you're going to go in because Robyn started out in education, didn't she? And then she progressed, eventually, in a roundabout way to the whole world of investment management. I mean, from education to Investment Management. I mean, you couldn't get to different types of career paths. So that's interesting. And Robyn really made that point Didn't she that that it is important to you know, reduce debt and build savings. But she also said it was really important to invest your money in experiences. Now, I don't think she was really referring to Hedden ism, and, you know, total pleasure all the time. But she did talk about the fact that her family have found it really, really useful to have experiences that they can have a shared understanding and have an emotional commitment to. And that was interesting. And she also talked about the idea of chipping away at the mortgage debt. So you know, homeownership was a very important part to her and her husband. And financial independence was a key part of that, and they didn't buy the house to make money. They wanted it because they wanted to own their own home. But this idea of chipping away at that sort of monolithic mortgage debt. But equally, she said, she didn't put off saving. And that point she made of just get going, you know, as we know, with the Money Milestones that I teach, that once you get to having got out of debt, and you built your emergency fund, and you're putting sensible amounts away for retirement or life after work, then you can concurrently chip away at overpaying your mortgage, but equally, also investing for the longer term. So that way, you're sort of straddling the two and Robyn made that point didn't see that, that just just get going with a small amount. Once you've got your bases covered, and chip away at the mortgage, and also chip away at building up some wealth, some good insights, a nice lady, nice company really like Vanguard, good people and really appreciate that they sponsor this podcast.

So there we go, look. That's the end of another episode. Thank you very much for your time. It's always great to share ideas with you. If you've got ideas that you want to share with me. Do get in touch at jason-butler.com. If you love the podcast, please leave a review because it really does help the show and I'll see you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai