62. Emmanuel Asuquo Sees The Light

This week I speak to Emmanuel Asuquo, qualified financial advisor and founder of the financial empowerment company, The Eman Effect UK.

Riding high as the youngest ever financial adviser at Barclays, a flash company car and extravagant spending, Emmanuel had it all. Then new financial rules led to redundancy, a bad credit rating and a massive rethink of the role of money.

This is a great conversation with a very engaging and humble man who knows the effect of childhood poverty scars, the true role of money, and what it means to live life on purpose.

I laughed a lot during our discussion. I think you will as well. Enjoy!

Episode Transcript

0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less, and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down, as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Hello, Jason here. And thanks for joining me on another edition of Real Money Stories. Now, before we get into this week's interview, which is a cracker, great fun, really enjoyed recording that. Just thought I'd share some thoughts and ideas, which will come to me this week. Now, obviously, since December, I'm recording this. And we've had that kind of year, haven't we where is the year that most people would like to forget. And we're all looking forward to hopefully getting back to some form of normality, whatever that is. Now, I think it's probably going to take us a bit longer than we think. And things won't go completely back to how they were in the past will they work patterns of change, buying patterns of change, retail has changed. There's a lot that's changed. But I think what we've all realized is, is what we really appreciate and what we value most that's been a good thing that's come out of the hole of the pandemic situation, which I think is, I think is a good thing. And you know, the authorities will eventually I'm sure get a handle on the virus and get that contained. So that's we've got cause for optimism. And it got me thinking about a new piece of research that's come out about mindset, really, and how it affects our financial behaviors and decisions. And you know, our ability to win with money as it were. Now, a researcher called Sophia Chow, who is an organizational psychologist at the National University of Taiwan, has recently done a piece of research and it was only on 200 undergrads in Taiwan. So that's just let's not put too much into it. But the but the findings of her research, I think, concur with what I've found over the years. And that what she said is that there are two types of sort of approaches to people with their financial situation, you've got the optimists and their feet, people who focus on growth and advancement. And they expect the best possible outcome is the majority of people. And then you've got pessimists. So they're at the other end of the spectrum, they focus on safety and security, and they tend to expect the worst possible outcome. And obviously, we've got people on the continuum on that some people will be somewhere in the middle. But what the study in Taiwan finds is that in terms of having good financial well being and having the best impact on your finances and your happiness, that really you need a hybrid approach. And what Sophia Chow finds is that a realistic optimist tends to do the best. So what that really means is you're going to have a positive outlook. So you've got faith in the future, but that you pay close attention to the downsides. So when we think about terrorists, they're actually sort of two types of optimist is that there's a realistic optimist, or the idealistic one, and the idealistic one is a bit myopic. So you really want to be a realistic optimist, so that what you're really doing is you're you're focusing on what can go right, but also what can go wrong. So you're moving forward, but also contemplating downsides. So I think when it comes to your own finances, if you can cultivate a faith in the future, but we're a realistic idea of what can go wrong, you're going to make better decisions, doesn't mean to say that you're going to get it right all the time, but minimizing blow ups, as

as Charlie Munger said, Warren Buffett's sort of business part of 60 years, avoiding blow ups and big mistakes is the key to getting ahead. But equally, you're going to have faith in the future. So for all its faults, capitalism will find many answers to the world's problems and will continue to advance I'm sure and we'll find the solution to many of the challenges we currently have, whether that's viruses or climate change or population growth. So so I think I'm being realistic. And it really brings us to that whole issue, doesn't it all understanding what we can control and what we can't control. We can control our attitude. We can control who we hang out with, we can control what we spend our money on and the choices we make with our money, where we work how You're now living etc. And also, if we want to give money to good causes, I'll come back to that in a minute. But we can't control viruses, we can't control tax rates, we can't control any of those things. So we have to just be realistic. Whereas that's an interesting one money mindset be a realistic, optimist faith in the future, but focusing on the downsides. And that brings me to another aspect that as we get to the end of the year, and we approach the new 2021, hoping it's gonna be a lot better, you might be thinking about taking stock of the current year, what's gone right, what's gone wrong, what would you have done differently, learning from that, but also what's gone right, celebrate your successes, but also thinking about how you can recast and get next year to be the best year that it could possibly be. And I've recently just submitted 150 words to the Financial Times, as you know, I'm a columnist there. But I've submitted 150 words to them, along with a number of other colonists and commentators on my new year's resolutions, in relation to money and finance, and my new year's resolution is all about actually becoming much more intentional, and a lot more serious about how much money and time I give, to make a difference to others. So whether that's giving my time freely, for a charitable pursuit, or to help other people, or to nurture someone else's well being, I'm going to do more of that. But I'm also going to get serious about money as well, giving more I've always given money if you've ever read my money moments, but you'll know that my life turned around when I wasn't really in a very good financial position by started putting 50 pounds a month in a charity account. And for some strange reason, my life just suddenly everything started going right. I'm sure it wasn't just that but it certainly was about having gratitude and going beyond your own needs. So I'm looking over the coming years to start really getting serious about how much I give, not just time but but actual hard cash to charities and causes that I think, will make a difference to society and the world. So I'm gonna get really serious about that. And I'm really excited because I don't have a lot of Nita, I don't have a very expensive lifestyle myself. But I'm really keen that the work that I do that generates me income, the vast majority of it is now going to be directed to charitable needs. So once my own needs are met, everything excess is going to go to charitable giving. So I'm gonna get really serious in the new year about how much I give to charitable causes, because there's always people out there who've got worse situation than you for no fault of their own. And I think that's something that really excites me. So the question really for you is, when you think about your New Year's Eve resolution in relation to money, try and think beyond your own needs. Obviously, if you're in a survival mode, or you're in a really difficult situation, you need to make sure you've got your shelter over your head and you can eat and you You're, you're looking after, you know you and your family first. But once you've got settled there, do you think about what you might be able to do for other people, even if it's just learned an error or a little bit of time or helping out somewhere doesn't have to be money. Because the more gratitude you can show, the more graciousness you can be to other people, the happier it makes you I certainly find that in my own situation because money. You're just a steward of it, aren't you when you take your last breath, you leave it all. So there we go. So that's a that's the end of my ramblings. The interview going to hear now is is a cracker. Manual. sq toe is a rising social media star is a really interesting guy comes from African heritage. He's larger than life character you may have seen him on on the TV recently. But he's a really humble guy really, really liked him. Some timeless lessons here about coming from poverty, and making his own way in the world and coping with curveballs but a humble guy I know you're gonna love it. So let's go over to Emmanuel and hear what he's got to say.

This week, I'm joined by another interesting guest, Emmanuel Asuquo. Hello, hi Emmanuel. First thing I've got your surname right thank you for

9:15
that. Yeah, yeah.

9:16
Oh important to get the people on stage right. Now before we get into your backstory Do you want to just tell anyone who doesn't know what you are because you're a bit of a social media sort of superstar really a bit of a sensation on you

9:28
are trying to be trying to be so? Yeah, I have a platform on Instagram called the email effect. And I basically share ideas I am I do quite a lot of ranks surprisingly, for sometimes on a route but I seem to people seem to enjoy my my style or financial education. I guess it's not, it's not the typical

9:49
strident, strident opinions is that is that how you describe it? Definitely. Very,

9:53
very much so and I try to use analogies and life experiences that are audience can relate to. So and try and make keep it simple. I think one of the things about personal finance or financial advice, I feel like it's very, they make it very difficult in order to make sure they can charge a large fee because you don't know what they're talking about. And my job is really to try and empower people to make better financial decisions.

10:17
Yeah, let's clear the mist, lift the fog, demystify all of that stuff. Yeah. And I, and I, my daughter is a big fan of your stuff. And she brought it to my attention because she, she's a big Instagram, obsessive, and I'm late to Instagram, and I've been around forever, as you know, but I'm pretty late to Instagram. And actually, I do like your do like the forthright and strident way that you put things. But here's the thing. I think. everyone reacts differently. donator messaging and what works for one person won't work for another. So there's plenty of space for different voices, different approaches, different perspectives, right?

10:53
Definitely. There's everyone has nothing. That's the biggest thing. We meet people that are How have you been so successful? I've been successful because I'm being me. And I always tell people be you like you can take inspiration from me or whoever you want to take inspiration from by the end of the day, it's going to end up people are going to buy into you being new, and that's the best thing that you can sell is yourself.

11:12
Someone said to me many years ago, it's best to be the best version of you than a not so good version of someone else you're trying to be who is not exactly, yeah, good. Well, that's the best the backstory. And once again, your Instagram handle.

11:25
It's the @theemaneffect.

11:30
check it out everyone if you don't do anything, check that out. Good. So Emmanuel, tell me test take me back to the earliest money memory, you know, the sort of the, when you are really small and thinking about how the world works. Can you remember your first money experience? Remember,

11:45
I don't know about money experience, but I always tell the story of how I understood money as a child. And for me growing up on a Council of State, to immigrant parents from Nigeria, the way I understood money was I lived in Limehouse and my parents, my mom, if you left the light on in the kitchen, my mom would always go crazy. But who left alone in the kitchen, you're wasting money, though, money doesn't grow on trees is really expensive. But living in Limehouse is really close to Canary Wharf. So I used to look out my window. And I used to see all these big skyscrapers at 1112 o'clock in my mind, they must be rich, because I can't even leave the light on in the kitchen. And they can leave the light on on all the floors and in the buildings when nobody's there. And that was how I really started to kind of understand money and value. And that's what kind of led me to chase and originally chase wanting to be working in finance.

12:47
There is an interesting thing because my mom used to say money doesn't grow on trees, a lot of our money values, money, beliefs, money scripts, if you will are inculcated in us and developed as we're children, right? Because the years were malleable, where you know, we under did your mum, obviously do it for the right reasons, because money will probably not, you know, it was a bit tight and difficult. My mom was you know, we didn't used to have a meter. And if we were watching a film, we didn't know if we didn't have another 20 p we couldn't finish watching the film, right? You know, running electric people don't do that. But I'm wondering if your mum's messaging dumb for all the right reasons and stem from a place of responsibility? Did that in any way cause you to develop what we call a scarcity mindset or kind of like a fixed view that that there was only so much money around or did he actually empower you to think actually, I need to, I need to create my own future. Looking back,

13:40
I think it's a bit of both so I definitely felt like you know, money was limited. And there wasn't much and especially people from left on my estate, they didn't have much money like I wasn't surrounded by you know, people who were affluent it was everywhere. It was just hard working and trying their best but didn't really have it but then it also inspired me to want more to want to want to get out of my situation I want to bring change to my situation and look at myself and say what can I do if I'm not happy where I am what can I do to to better it and that's kind of what drove me to you know really try and work on huh Alright, so

14:16
when you were young there was the opposite of session returning lights on got that Yeah, um, as you saw in primary school, did you ever did you ever do anything to earn money? Did your mom give you pocket money? Or or were there little torch jaws? You did? Or was there any little projects at school you did about money and making things and building stuff? And you know, that whole idea of of financial acumen. Was there anything going on there?

14:39
Funny say that a lot. A lot of things I did. I didn't know what pocket money was until I went to secondary school. And everyone said how they got pocket money and I never I never got pocket money. No, never. I never ever had anything like that. I never got paid. I had to do chores. I never got paid for them though. Now the concept of being paid to do a chore for me was like so unbelievable, because It was just, it was standard, we had to iron our clothes, we had to wash the plates, he had to leave the house. And that was that was just so you know, if you didn't, you are a bad child and you get in trouble. There was never a reward system or working hard to get something. It was just this is what you have

15:14
to do. And of course there is an issue is there's a cultural difference because a friend of mine, Abraham contenu, who's in a previous episode, he runs timeline, a company I invested in, he's from Nigeria, and he said the cultural approach there too. There was certainly no namby pamby and children. He said there was no there was none of that there was like, you know, you This is how it's gonna be. And we all chip together. So it was a different cultural aspect there. How did that? I suppose obviously, Limehouse, East London, it's a real mixing part of the United Nations, right? It's like, nations. There's everyone in anyway, I grew up in all sorts in southeast London, so I know what it's about. So, you know, I miss a diversity, right? Yeah. But the point is that, how did your cultural heritage and your parents kind of attitude to sort of the value of money and the value of things and lifestyle? How did that come to? How did that interact with all the experiences you had, then when you first joined secondary school because presumably, someone had the nice trainers, some people did hear

16:16
this when I was talking about poverty scars and issues there, because for me, I didn't get a nice pair treatments till 15, which was what year 10. And it was, it was the worst. So I used to get teased, bullied. And I used to always wish to, you know, get out of this situation we go on, I used to hate going to school, because I always want to the west outfits. And you know, I, I wanted things well, if I will do things up, play football with my school shoes, other people get me school shoes, my mom would put glue on them, put them underneath, you know, something heavy, and then I'll be wearing in the next day. That's that's where I was coming from. So it was really like money was something that I just hated my situation, because it felt like everybody was enjoying money. Everybody was living in I just couldn't get none of it.

17:08
Now, as a teenager, it's a difficult time in everyone's life. Because you're growing up, you're finding your identity, you want to connect with people you want to be accepted. Um, how did that influence your sense of identity, self esteem and security, because if we don't feel secure, if we don't feel we belong, it can really affects us comment.

17:25
It can. And so I don't know if it's a good thing. But I had to kind of learn how to how to rebuttal after costs, basically. So somebody would, we would basically be you, I'll be put down. And it was like, dude, that's a boy school. So you either you either come back with a comeback, or everybody just lost. And in the beginning, I just needs to let everyone laugh at me, and so forth until I learn how to come back how to defend myself. And it was almost a case of, I had to go to school ready to be picked on or to be pumped up. Because I didn't have the right trainers. We'll get into that. But then eventually, as he got older, I played basketball. I played rugby, I was the captain of the rugby team. And I became one of the cool kids. And people left me alone. But for the first you know, two, three years of school, it was it was a nightmare.

18:15
Yeah. So when you were a teenager, did you ever do like a side hustle or part time job or anything to earn money? Did

18:22
you did you ever do anything I did. So basically, my I went to church and I had quite a large church, my church at the time had about 850 people on a Sunday. And so one of my friends had some money. When I knew I had the link through loan people at church and we used to buy some jeans, they were called a VC that no one really wears them anymore. But we used to buy a VC jeans at the market. And then I would then go and sell it, get my put them in my dad to get my dad to drive the car out to the front of church and actually sell jeans outside of the church. And I made I made good money. Obviously pasta wasn't particularly happy to assemble stuff outside. But that was my hustle. you're providing a

19:01
service right? you're providing a service to people is

19:03
it and people enjoyed it. So we and that was that was my first ever kind of business or anything into business and we made good money.

19:10
But here's the thing though, Emmanuel, you were learning at that stage by the sounds of it. That if you deliver value to other people, you it's right and proper and only reasonable for you to be paid for the value of delivering which was making it convenient, providing something they wanted at a price they could afford that value right. There's nothing to be ashamed of it that so did that. What was that? Like? What did they teach you that that first? Did you like the feel of the folding in your pocket? In fact, you were in control? I mean, did that really springboard it? Oh, yeah,

19:37
I loved it. And it's funny you say that because you sound like me because that this is what I teach like I go and give talks at school. And I always talk about value over money that if you're able to add value money will come but if you only focus on money, when when whatever is giving you money is gone. Now you have no no way to make it. And so for me, I'm so focused on adding value. Like he said, adding going out finding the things A low price that nobody else could find. Yeah, I love the search. I had the level I didn't have the money I had the network you had the money you're gonna sell it, maybe paid him back his money and then we split the profits 5050 and then we and then when we got our profit our money to go and win again.

20:14
But what you're doing very manual that was a growth mindset that was right who's got what resources you didn't focus on the fact you didn't have the money, you found something that the money he knew you had the context and the idea. And you both hustled. So I love that story. And it's very similar to when I was young, my brother and I, we we did markets, we didn't have anything we started off by selling my record collection. Then we bought Teddy's brand new Teddy's but we're about 50 sold them all went back and got more 100 sold the mall. And we had a great time. And in fact, we didn't even have you know the owning that goes over the top of our thing. Market stores. Casey Yeah, borrowed the top hole. And that was over some sand on a building site, which was great until the sand started dropping on top of us as we were putting aside our early early careers it sound like they were very similar. What did you do? You know, you got through school? What What was the focus? Did you think about what you'd be doing after school? Was there a career path? Or did you think it was education? Or was it going to be hustling? business? What happened then?

21:11
Yes, so um, my dad, he's an accountant from I got an accountant. Obviously,

21:17
we won't hold it against him.

21:20
But he he be a Nigerian, you have to go to university, like a child, a Nigerian child that doesn't go to universities, because it's almost like a shame on the family. And so it's not that big go to university means that that's the best thing in life, but in their mindset, and again, one of the things I did, I made my dad read Rich Dad, Poor Dad. And he actually after reading, he actually came to me and said, Sorry that I had the poor that mentality. Because that was that was what he knew best. And then you can't blame someone. Sometimes you don't like we always kind of rough on our parents, but sometimes you can't blame them for doing what they've done out

21:55
of love and love, but they don't know everything there is to know. Yeah,

21:59
exactly, exactly. So I had to go to university. And so I went to university and I had to get a job. Once I turned 18 My birthday is in May literally birthday, we all celebrated the next day. But you have to get a job or or you know gonna stay in my house and 18 and not and not have a job so I had to go find a job. So I got a job, your Marks and Spencers 5am in the morning

22:29
for 18 year old

22:34
and I was in Canary Wharf luckily so it was close by I don't even have buses. It just we just walked down to Canary Wharf basically, in the morning just mean the fox is walking in. And yeah, it was just it was that was my first job. That was the first way I learned how to make money.

22:51
Yeah, so that was Marks and Spencers Did you then go to university or

22:56
I went to university had to go University, got a job and got an uneasy I went to granite University did accounting and finance again my dad's influence. So I had to do that because I wanted to do market and economy, quality marketing, you're not gonna make more money doing marketing, go to go to accounting or finance. So I'll do it but I hated accounting software, I'm going to add finance to it. So did it kinda know finance and then I worked part are changed or moved from Marks and Spencers to Barclays as a cashier. Oh, so.

23:27
So you went to Barclays and that was just entry level didn't know where it was. We just thought this is somewhere at least I'm in the zone. Right?

23:34
Exactly. And that was the thing. And that's why I always tell people, I want it to be in these builders I saw. But I didn't know how so is that any way I can get in, I'm going to get him and so I use my experience from working in Marks and Spencers to get a cashier job in Barclays. And that's how I got it.

23:49
Yeah. So here's the thing, you get a job, even if it's not glamorous, it's not where you want to be. And then you use those skills, you develop them, you prove your worth, and then you get the better job and then you get the better job you don't start way down. Yeah, okay. There's always a way. Alright, so bodies Tell me about the Barclays years, then what happened there.

24:05
Barclays, Barclays is amazing. So I went into Barclays and I've got my mark, I've got my mentality, you know, you know, your contract, I started mine, finished finishing five. So they used to have morning meetings at 845 hours out in the morning, you're not paying me from 845 you pay me from nine o'clock. I'm again at nine o'clock. But obviously at nine o'clock, everyone's coming in. So I'm coming in with the customers that are coming in and so forth. So you get a manager. And because I'm part of panorama, they let you off a bit because you're not there all the time. So they let you off a bit but and you

24:34
were still studying at this time when I was

24:36
doing my degree still studying. And then I got I got a new manager and a new manager. He really liked me but he he felt like I wasn't putting in the lack of effort. And so he told me if you're on time You're late. That changed my life. That one little thing change. If you're on time You're late. So what I used to do, I set I set my clock my watch to be half an hour Early. And then I would aim to get everywhere half an hour early. So I was arriving every one

25:05
hour early Golden Rule turn up on time. And before time, yeah, good time. So. So that was a changing mentality, what impact that having your attitude to work then that?

25:15
Yes. So what happened was is because I was coming early guess, who's at a branch, the branch manager. Now because I had I had put in, I'm showing him the right effort. Now, he was like, if you want to, you want to be more than just a cashier. So you need to be moving as someone that's doing more than a cashier. So he made me pick up the pamphlets in the banking Hall, and take them home and read. So I read how the pamphlet on credit cards on mortgages, because he was like, You can't just operate him in the place that you're at. You need to learn you want to move up, you need to be working moving as if you were

25:48
there already. Go beyond your comfort zone seat more. Yeah, exactly. So

25:53
yeah, I started doing that. Then I started to hit target. And I was only three days a week. But actually I was I was doing more targeted people that were five days a week,

26:00
mostly sort of people I've been in account since. Yeah,

26:03
but I could talk to them now. Because I already have the personality. But I didn't have the knowledge

26:09
and the personality, right.

26:12
So I'm literally speaking to everyone coming in, you know about this, all the stuff that I'm reading the pamphlets, I'm not able to educate my customer while I'm putting them on while I'm taking their money when I'm serving them. And so I would then start hitting target. And so because of that, by the time I finished my degree at age 22, they said, What job do you want? Imagine barky saying, What job do you want, you've done so amazing for us, whatever job you want, that's what we're going to give you. And I said I wanted to meet financial advisor, and I went from cashier to a financial advisor,

26:42
and they pay for you to do your basic financial services.

26:45
All my trainer, I didn't have to work all I have to do a study. Warmer paid for and the two are. So I had a two hour that we used to go to Milton Keynes. So spend a week at home studying on our own than a week in Milton Keynes have a two hour lievable pass each pass each exam, done, come back and

27:03
try to interpret all because you came in early. All because

27:06
I've told you, it's life changing all because I was humble enough to say, Okay, I'm gonna listen to this one, I'm going to try and better myself, I'm just going to give it a chance. And let's see what I've got to lose. Let me just try and look at the chain of events that have led to

27:22
raising. So you trained as a financial advisor. And that would have taken quite some time to do that. Because we're how many years ago we're talking about now.

27:31
This is this is 13 years ago.

27:33
Okay, it was still, you know, pretty good standards. I mean, I've increased the bar all the time, but still take quite a few exams and papers and stuff. So you did that. And then what did you do today? Did they give you a position in a branch? or How did you work around the wall on prepaid appointments or what happens?

27:49
So basically, they gave me a position in the branch and I became at the time because I was only 22, Australia uni I was a youngest financial advisor and boffins in the country. And so imagine all my colleagues now, our late 40s, early 50s because you know, the average age of a financial visors, not all of them could be my be my mom, be my dad, whatever it may be. And I've come in straight out of uni and we're all doing the same job at the same title. They gave me the smaller branches to start off with. So I was in, I moved closer to where I live. So I live. I live in Catford. So so they moved me I was looking after pinch down them and siblings. So these are three branches and

28:28
well know them well.

28:30
Yeah, so nobody, nobody wanted them. With the bigger advisors. Obviously. They wanted the big branches like the brown leaves and the mechanisms. Yeah. I mean, the big branches. So I have the three small branches that nobody wanted. And I still killed it. I killed it. And I did so well that I then transferred to Central London and got the big branches in Tottenham Court Road. And so yeah, and Mmm. And I had my own private banking my middle east assembly clients.

28:56
So that's an interesting takeaway. You took the unglamorous things everyone else didn't want to do you just said, Well, I'm sure there's all angles, and you probably would do better than people in the dark places. Okay. Interesting at this stage, as you were rocking people's world in Sydney and pension down, right? Yeah. Again, I'm heavily involved in both these products and services, with your with your charming smile, and all the rest of it, and your pamphlet knowledge and all those exams. How did you How are you faring with your own finances? And what I mean by that is how do you actually learn how to control spending? Did you had you build an emergency fund? Did you feel looking back that you'd really really got a handle on personal control and what really true wealth is about or we still was that was that working progress?

29:41
That was working progress because we have to remember I'm coming from a place of not having. So this is what we talked about about the poverty scars. So yeah, all of a sudden, I've got a nice business card that says financial planning manager on it. I got a company car, a brand new BMW three series. Oh wait. 2008 I've got an overweight play. I'm 22. Literally the last thing I'm thinking about is saving money emergency fund. I'm thinking Finally, salary. Yeah, full time. Part time, most of my career part time while studying, it's the first time I'm on a full time salary, I've got huge amounts of money, I'm still living at home. And then obviously, my parent, my mom is they're asking me for money. So I'm giving my mom money. I'm buying this and buying that. And, you know, for order.

30:27
And when manual was that, like, just like, basically, I kid in a sweet shot, right? You, you you just been going out for so long, you just went the other way. Right?

30:35
It went the other way. And it was terrible. It was i was i was going on going on dates, and, you know, spending 200 300 pounds, just impressing people that for no reason, other than the fact that I could never have done this before. And I finally had the resources. And I always talk about just because you can afford it doesn't mean you should buy. Just because I have enough money to do something doesn't mean that I should do it. And it was at that time I hadn't understood. Although I'm a financial advisor, and I'm qualified. I hadn't understood that money was a tool. To me money was still something I could use as a consumer to buy something.

31:08
So is it fair to say and I don't mean to be in a derogatory way because I was in my 20s i'd 30 rounds of debt and negative equity in my mortgage. I mean, you could not have been worse, honestly, if there's a competition on winning it. So the thing is, did you were you effectively living paycheck to paycheck So in other words, my only came in money went out good times to be had, and living the dream, right. But you weren't building any money.

31:32
I wasn't building I had money left over. Because even though I spent them it was I had hardly any costs or whatever. So there was always money left over. But I wasn't money left over. I'm invested in me. I said, this is a set amount that I'm trying to save. I was literally in training and they might be two 300 pounds leftover in a mouth. And that will just sit in the car or whatever. I wasn't I wasn't building the emergency fund. But having been

31:54
intentional, you're just being realistic. You're enjoying the moment, right? And I suppose there's, there's a part to say that if you've had such a tight times, it's been so scarce, that we all do stuff that's a bit weird and wacky look back, and we think oh, perhaps we should have done differently. But um, what how? Tell me how he then develop the career and your personal finances? So was there an epiphany point? Was there a big step up? Did you meet someone important? Or did you have a big blowout and end up with loads of debt? I mean, tell me what happened. Next

32:21
question. So I was very successful as a financial advisor. So I made loads of bonuses, I paid off all my student debt. I paid off. I had no debt. I was I was good living on my own within my own means. But just enjoying, I wasn't really having savings, but I wasn't I didn't have debt as such.

32:41
That's quite important. Oh, so you didn't get into debt? You've got rid of the student debt. But yeah, the only saving so that's not bad. Some people are, you know, like complete train wrecks. Right. So So definitely, that wasn't doing that you just weren't building money.

32:52
Yeah, wasn't building money. And remember, I always tell people at this time, mortgages are self serving self certification. So I'm working in a bank, I could have easily got house. And I wouldn't even have to prove income, nothing like that. No deposit 100% mortgage for no deposit needed. And I was so focused on enjoying and missing out. But actually, I'm, I look back now and say I could have, I could have had two or three properties in that time with it with the income that the money I was earning the income I was on. And I'll be in a much different space now. Like with my children, and so forth now than I am that I am. So sometimes, yes. Although I wasn't in debt or anything like that. I wasn't making the best use. And I mean, we always talk about, you know, my people perish because of lack of knowledge. And sometimes it's about that knowledge. And that's why I wanted to set my platform up. So that whenever you whenever you're ready to make money, I don't want you to wait until you're you know, 100 k salary will fleeting Oh, now I should invest or I should have a pension. I want you to know the fundamentals no matter what age you are, so that whenever you get money, you understand how to use.

33:55
Yeah, well, there's never the right time to start anything. Right. But if you don't pay yourself first, you will always be poor.

34:00
Yeah, I got it always. Yeah,

34:01
but Okay, so you were working at Barclays? So tell me, was there an epiphany when you suddenly thought, I'm not putting I'm not saving? Or I'm not building anything? I'm not seeing anything? Money? Did you? Did you feel? Was there any kind of like guilt, shame, embarrassment, or frustration? Or was there How did it develop? No,

34:19
it was ego. It was ego. It was. I'm out here amongst all my, all the people that I know that I come from, and this is the problem is that a lot of us are trapped in our small bubbles. And we were not seeing the bigger picture. We're not seeing the big wide world. And remember that time there's not the social media now that we have fit. It was mainly Facebook, and nobody really likes Facebook, let's be honest. So there wasn't the social media pressures. So you were just called the people that you knew. And so amongst my peers, I was that guy. I was, you know, I was the one when achieving working in the bank to be an amazing, everybody's proud. So on the outside, you know, go to dinners I could say, Oh, don't worry, guys, I'll pay for that. And, you know, I was the biggest She's. And so in my mind, that was all that was important, but actually, I was really suffering.

35:06
Right? So when you say it sounds similar to what I had as well, he outwardly looked at, you're doing okay, because you were consuming you could choose the option and you were barely been sharing and caring with other people that you weren't accumulating and you weren't doing the things that you needed to do. So what happened it was there a breaking point was there yes, there.

35:25
So, so what happened was is that I got married, I got married. And before I got married, I say for my wedding, I paid for myself. And in in, I managed, we managed to save you know, about 30 K, in within a 12 month period. I've never saved I never saved this money before. I was asked because because I saved my best. My best friend is my cousin. And he was that way. How are we? How are we? How bottomless? I've saved money for a wedding. And now we've had the wedding. The money's gone, and obviously paid for the wedding. Because African wedding 500 people? Yes,

36:01
they're a big affair. Yeah.

36:09
Exactly. So it's one of those things, I forced myself. This is crazy. I've done all this. But then I can't be done. And then I've got made redundant and this is what change, I've got made redundant. And it was the first time in my career that I didn't have no money.

36:24
I have no income just stopped,

36:26
stopped. And it was it was it was like, when I got made redundant. It was like 2000 2010 to 2012 2013. I got made redundant. And at that time in the industry, they moved away from the thing called audio. Yeah. So basically, all the banks pulled out of offering financial advice.

36:46
Yeah, yeah. Because the rules are not tighter, didn't

36:49
tighter. So there was no more commission. And so because of that, not there was no more jobs. And that's when I realized that living on one income is just it's a false sense of security. And so I only had the one income, we got pulled away from me, I had to take the job, and I took a job. That was I was like 30,000, less than what I was making before. Right. And so because of that, all of a sudden, you know, we couldn't couldn't meet bills. It was just a struggle lap. And I've never I hadn't experienced this before. No. And now my wife was pregnant. And he was just like, oh, my goodness,

37:27
everything's happening. Everything. Something's wrong, she got married, the job starts kid on the way

37:32
kid on the way, all this money that I've made over all this time, and I've got nothing in my time of me in the time that I need it most. I've got, I've got nothing.

37:42
And how did you feel about yourself, he must have been feeling a bit sort of

37:46
bit down about that when it goes down. And then and then basically, I had a student overdraft. But the letters used to go to my parents house. And so because obviously, that's where I was when I was a student. And so I didn't I didn't see it. And basically, walk walk is my own cut my own Barclays my love Barclays, they, um, they gave me a default. They basically wrote a letter saying, We want you to pay off the overdraft completely in 30 days. I never saw it. And then I just remember seeing this default, and

38:16
sort of thing. Yeah.

38:19
I paid it. And that was fine. But it was too late. And so now for the first time, I've got bad credit as well. Right. So I've got I've got no money. I've got a job that's making me no money. And and I don't like why just have to take it because I've got default. So I've got no, the credit is completely gone out. Yeah. I've got a wife looking at me that this is not what I signed up for. Yeah. I mean, it's the money, man. Yeah, kid on the way. And that was that was the change for me.

38:47
But there must have been a very difficult time because I know when I was very embarrassed, I still embarrassed now. And I still feel pain and shame and guilt looking back to my 20s and how much I wasted. But it is a lonely time when you when you've got lots of stuff happening, which let's face it wasn't your fault. You lost your job, but it was your fault that you didn't have any money. Right? Yeah. So we can often start to assume that because we've made a mistake or failed at something that were a failure, or were a mistake. And how did you pull yourself out of that? How did you do? How did you regroup mentally, physically and financially?

39:21
You know, where it was, and this is where, you know, having the right you know, partner is so important. My wife, she was just so supportive, and she was just rather than just being angry or just being you know, looking at me and saying, What have you done, she was so supportive that you can do this, you can change it, you've got the skills, the ability, and you know, Adams just got up every morning, I used to wake up like I was still going to work, but go to the laptop and apply for jobs. But it was

39:48
the job but the job of finding a job Right,

39:50
exactly. Exactly was the job of finding it and so once once that one side and then obviously I had this other job that I had left as well because that was I just took For the money, because that leaves that you're not enjoying it, spend your time focusing, we had a look, the last bit of money left my wife, she, she had a cake business. So she was making cakes and, you know, help him towards the bills, which normally she didn't pay any bills before. But now we just needed the money. So she was she was helping, and I apply plaid got a much better job come out of that situation. And I learned so much from being in debt that I actually learned more about my finances and personal finance, from my own situation than I ever did in any book or

40:30
any qualification. So before we I want to come back to what you learn, but you managed to get a job,

40:37
got a job, got a job, got got got my salary back up, and everything went everything went smooth from there. And then, you know, decided to them once I got back on my feet, then decided to start my own company that had another stream of income. So that,

40:52
yeah, so what did you learn from that experience? What Did it teach you? What did that? And not all of us learn from our experiences? But what do you teach? What are the key takeaways?

41:03
The key takeaways were that, you know, I was spending money impressing people. But when I was in my time of need, these people couldn't do anything for me. So actually, why was I putting so much effort into impressing all the all these people, and so forth, when I actually the people that actually care about me most already loved me the way I am, and not by how much I spent, or how much money I had. That wasn't the reason they were around me. And so for me, it was so important, I so much realized that, you know, when it comes to like designer clothes, or wearing chains, or necklaces, or jewelry, all of that didn't mean nothing to me anymore. Because the people that love me love me with or without these things. And I had to understand self worth, I really learned the value of myself and loving myself the way I am. And saying that, you know, if anyone doesn't, doesn't accept me the way I am less fine. But I'm not going to change or become something just to impress others. When we show our banner says that wonderful line in a book called becoming. Am I good enough? Yes, I

42:03
am. And you're not the finished article. You're not always where you want to be. We're always working progress, but that learning to love yourself. You're absolutely right. Funny thing is now my stage. I'm 51. And I see this I have this lovely privilege of speaking to wonderful people like you every week and I've interviewed 1000s of people in my career. I want for actually less stuff in my life now. And yet, I've got more means than I've ever had to buy it. And I don't mean that in a in a bragging way. I mean that now that I've got the ability to actually pretty much buy most things I want, I don't want them. So what is it about that? What is it about when we let go of that consumption? Miraj or biblical chord? What is it about that when you let that go, you actually get true wealth, right.

42:48
And that's why I always tell people that people will think financial freedom is an amount of money but human nature says that I look at clients when I was working in the banks that were on 10 2030 k a month. I was still in debt was still in debt because they needed a bigger mortgage. And they weren't any happier. No happier. Yeah, I met I met millionaires do I would sit down and be like, people wish they could be you. And they would be like, no, if you know the pressure if you know the the fear of my life. And I'm thinking to myself, wow. So it really does show you that money does come by you happiness. And actually you if you want to be happy, you need to find happiness inside of yourself, your happiness around about around the things around you. That are the things that are most important.

43:34
But when you're singing in church or with your people you love, I know Coronavirus, but there's nothing better than I remember when I was in lifting Lewisham libraries are in a Pentecostal church and I still am an atheist. I still one of the most joyful experience I've ever had was in a Pentecostal church. Right? You know, where there's an amazing scene, I didn't cost any money, right? And you'll never get more joy in your heart than singing with other people, you know, exactly. Loving bar. So that's interesting. So tell me now what is your you? What are your key how you teach people? or What is it you're teaching people now in your current activities if your current business

44:09
for me, I just want to teach people about building wealth, focusing on well, and understanding the importance of trying not to just live for today and live for tomorrow, because YOLO is a big thing. I think YOLO you only live once, that's a big thing. But I think the way that this generation and the generation below have taught him YOLO is that you only live once. So forget about tomorrow, and only focus on today. And that's and that's actually not to me, that's not what it means to me is you only live once or make the most of it. And by doing that, that means that actually I need to make sure that I can enjoy my whole life and not just this one moment. And I think a lot of us are living for the One moment. It and because of that we don't we can't, we can't we're setting ourselves up for a full of failure going forward. And so what I try to teach people about how they can use their money and make their money work for them, trying to build multiple streams of income, understanding, understanding that they are value. And that's one of the big things I teach you are value, which means that anything that you buy or you own now becomes valuable because you own it. So if it doesn't matter what cars outside the fact that if your car is valuable, it doesn't matter what suit the name of brand or suit that you wear, because you're wearing it is valuable. And when you understand that you are valuable, and you add value to things, all of a sudden, you don't need those things anymore.

45:32
Well, there's a couple of things isn't there? There's, there's the there's the thing when Brianna took her accountant to court, because she I think she ran out of money or had a house that was all a bit lonely. And the accountant said, Look, I told me, Anna, when you have money, and you use the money to buy stuff, you no longer have the money and you have the stuff what part of that did she not understand? And she wanted to blame everyone else. But then the other thing is, you should say even if you lose your job like you did, you haven't lost your enthusiasm, your skills, your contacts, your authenticity, your honesty, or gap and go and you handle those things. So what do you want to leave everyone with that I should have asked you what's the what's the thing you want to leave the listeners with before you go manual.

46:11
I think the biggest thing for me and the one thing I learned in my career is that every skill you need to achieve your dreams you already have inside of you, you just need to nurture it. You just need to put yourself in the environment where you can nurture I used to get told off for being over talkative or making noise and being a class clown. And now they're paid to give talks. Yeah, I had the skill. I just wasn't using it in the right in the right environment. And when I added the financial advice, knowledge with my personality, it has changed my life. Now for some of us, and for the listeners, we all have a skill, we will have something inside of us to special to us find that and then find what do you need to add to it to take you to that next level and and you'll achieve your dreams and your goals?

46:52
Yeah, absolutely. And as you say, Joy costs you nothing if you're doing what you love. It's not like working as Confucius says, find what you love and you'll never work a day in your life sounds to me like you are absolutely living your dream. And now it's not all the finished article. But you're always moving on. I've been really loved our chat. It's been wonderful speaking to you just give everyone your Twitter handle again, as another shout out in case they forgot you. So that's

47:12
our Instagram is the email effect uk The Eamon effect UK great stuff.

47:19
So you can find me on Twitter, they can find you on Instagram, and they can find you on social media. So, Emmanuel, you've been a wonderful guest, I've really enjoyed speaking to you. I know I'm going to see you again and speak to you again. I just know because you're out and about in the schools and doing stuff. So let's keep in touch. And let's keep trying to change people's lives. So that money is a force for good. Thanks for being on the show.

47:39
Thanks Jason, really appreciate.

47:46
Well, my What a great episode, there was so many insights in that relatively short chat I had with Emmanuel, that idea of the the lights are on in Canary Wharf, and yet his mother told him, you know, turn the lights off because they didn't have much money. And he equated the idea that, that if you've got lots of lights, I must mean you're rich, that was a great one. And Emmanuel mentioned the idea of poverty scars, this idea that when you grow up without much, and I know from my own experience, it does scar you and and you can either take that with you into life as a negative, or you can use it as a positive to reorientate yourself and work out what really matters. I love the idea when he was talking about, you know, sort of taking control and responsibility and was selling the jeans, those cut price market jeans outside the church certainly showed ingenuity and he was delivering value. And that idea of turning up early, you know, if you're on time, you're already late, turning up early and acting like the person you want to become and that was great advice that he got from his mentor and his manager. And he made that point Didn't he about spending to look successful to others. But inside he was suffering because he thought that that's what he needed to do. And as the money came in, it went out. And then he was made redundant, wasn't he and the gravy train all stopped and suddenly had to take a job paying him a lot less money. He had no real savings. He had a child on the way recently married. Bad Credit because an overdraft the letters on that had gone to another address, and so he couldn't get credit. And interestingly, he made the point that the people he'd previously been trying to impress of all his gregarious and over the top spending were nowhere to be seen and certainly weren't interested in his time of need when he was really up against it. But his wife really believed in him, didn't she, she said to him, you can do this. You've got what it takes. And he made that point that YOLO isn't about just living for the moment. It's about living your whole life on purpose and getting the most out of it. And he made that lovely point in the end that you've got everything you need in life to succeed. Right now. You just got to develop it. You've got to nurture it, and you've got to make it the best it can be. So I hope you enjoyed that episode. One to watch. Do check out the manuals. Instagram channel is a lovely bloke and I hope to you know, have him on the show again. In future. So that's the end of the that's the end of this week's episode. I hope to see you again next week. Thanks for listening.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai