80. Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo Flies High With Money

This week I speak to Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo, serial entrepreneur, qualified financial advisor, director and owner of Time4Advice and Angels High.

As a child, Rowland admired the drive of his father who, as a Polish immigrant, came from nothing but worked his way up and had a successful career as managing director of a major company.

It took a dabble in an electrical engineering degree, and then a medical photography one, for Roland to realise what he wanted was to unleash his entrepreneurial streak instead.

As a young professional, Roland describes his antics living in London in the late 80s, which includes a very entertaining story about priceless family heirlooms, a Sainsbury’s bag and an East London criminal gang. Or as Roland puts it, ‘the sort of lunacy that happens when you're a youth in town’.

Superb stories from a superb guest. Expect to see another collaboration between Roland and me in the future, which may or may not be on solid ground!

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:00
Hello, coming up in this episode, are you on top of your digital assets, how to ask for a salary raise. And I have a great interview with a very successful entrepreneur who I first met nearly 30 years ago. Hello, and welcome to the real money stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money, journey, or world on the train, there's bound to be something you can learn from the stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invest in what assets Do you own your property, think of your home car, money in your bank account, even the value of your underfunded pension. But we also increase in the only digital assets like photos, music, social media content, and for an increasing minority cryptocurrencies like Bitcoin and aetherium. Apparently, every day 8000 users on Facebook die. By the end of the century, some forecasts are that there will be more profiles of dead people than living people. And in the UK, on average, there are 118 online accounts registered to one email address, and that number is increasing. Now, cryptocurrency is really out of the news these days. But if you've yet to dip your toe in the water, you might still not understand what they are. But in simple terms, cryptocurrency is just digital money. And it uses a form of encryption technique to generate the currency and verify the transfer of funds from one owner to the other. And it's stored in what's called a virtual wallet. And that requires a public and a private key to complete the transaction. Now, the problem with cryptocurrencies it's very volatile, can go up 30 4050 60% in a very short order of time, and it's very energy intensive for how it's actually created. The currency is mined, and currently there's no regulation. And also, there's increasingly fraud in this area. So in June 2019, hackers stole 30 million pound of Bitcoin from by Nance. They took 7000 Bitcoin after hacking accounts using stolen user data, and they even broke through the two factor or den authentification passwords. Now according to cipher trace $950 million of crypto was stolen from exchanges in 2018. And that's up 260% from 2017. I'm sure that because even higher now, but spare a thought for customers of crypto exchange quadriga CX, who are out as much as $190 million after its c e. o. Jerry cotton died in 2019. Cotton reportedly was the only one with the key to retrieve the money. So it's essential to let your executor no of the existence of any crypto and the details of the private key. Now, the paradox of this digital currency is that the safest way to do this is to write down the key on a piece of paper and store it somewhere safe. But you've got to make sure that you tell your executives where it is. And that doesn't just apply to any crypto you might only applies to any owned by anyone who's put you down as an executor, or where you stand to inherit any of their estate. Now, I predict there's going to be billions and billions of pounds euros and dollars of digital assets that will remain stranded on the blockchain. Because executives and their ears don't know they exist, or they do know about them, but they can't access them. So you have been warned. Let's talk about asking for a raise. Now I know this is a tricky issue for a lot of people. Not earning what you're worth is one thing, but not earning What you need is another. This is really important point to get it clear in your mind. The fact that you need more money coming in to meet your outgoings is not a reason for your employer to give you a raise. delivering a lot of value for the organization, however, is. There is an exception though to that rule. And that's if the cost and upheaval of replacing you might motivate your employer to pay a bit more. That tends to be the case in very specialist and hard to fill roles. Now Ken Coleman is a US careers expert who suggests a really simple framework for asking and getting a raise. So I thought I'd share the highlights of his approach because that might be useful to you or someone you care about in getting a bigger financial shovel as we call it. So

Ken says First of all, getting the right mindset to ask for a raise By taking two steps, first of all do a thorough assessment, you need to ask yourself two questions. If I were my leader, what kind of person would have you ever raised to? And am I going above and beyond in my current role? And then the second stage of that is to ask your peers for feedback. You know what you're really good at what your unique strengths where perhaps could you improve. So once you've done your assessment, and then this is basically how you go about doing asking for the race. So the first thing is understanding when to ask for a raise, because Timing is everything. It's not really a topic that you casually talk about when you happen to be in the same room as your leader. So instead, you need to find an intentional time to start the conversation. And think of it as not asking for a raise outright, but rather meeting with your leader to create a growth plan that will naturally lead to more pay. So first stage is to ask for more responsibility. You can't ask for more money, without asking for more responsibility. So your main request should be something along the lines of give me more responsibilities, so I can create more value for the company. So when you frame it that way, the money will naturally follow. So with that in mind, here's an example that can gives for how you can start the conversation. Now, I'm really happy and grateful to be at this company. And I want to make myself more valuable to the team. Are you open to creating a growth plan with me, that will allow me to grow professionally and financially? You see, in that approach, the finances are still part of the equation, but they're not the focal point. So when your leader sees you're humble, hungry, and smart, and that you're serious about putting in the work that it takes to earn more, they're going to be way more likely to give you a raise? If they say no to the above question, this might not be the best workplace for you. And if they say yes to this question, then you're on to the next step. So the next step is to ask for your leaders feedback. So you need to come to that meeting prepared with questions that can inform the growth plan, and show that you're ready to go above and beyond like, what areas of the company do you think could use my help? What are some areas that I can improve him? How do you see my current position evolving over the next few years? What can I be learning and reading in my downtime to help me grow in my role. So once you've presented the idea of a growth plan to your leader, and genuinely listen to their feedback, it's time then to map out the plan with them. So the next stage is to create a clear growth plan. So you don't walk away from the meeting until you've written down specific things you can start doing to take on more responsibility. So talk to your leader about the logistics of how and when you can start putting those changes into practice. And the specific goals that should be accomplished a month, six months or a year from now. And if your company doesn't already use what's called a key results, area, a k are a statement, or they are a descriptions of what's expected and required in each role in the company. See, if you and your leader can build that out together, then you can start doing the level of work that lines up with the K ra at the position that you want to aim for. So you should come away from that meeting with your leader feeling enthused, because you've been heard, you didn't have to put anyone in an awkward position, including yourself. And you now have a concrete plan that you and your leader have developed together. The next stage is actually follow the plan. Don't go through all the trouble of creating a growth plan unless you're actually going to put it to work. So if you think your leaders too far removed from your daily responsibilities to notice whether you've been working the plan or not, you're wrong. When you're killing it in your role, Word will travel fast. But the same is also true when you're slacking. So do what you said you would do. And you won't have to worry about asking for a raise. Now it can also suggest that you might also want to keep a running list of goals that you hit problems you solve and the money that you make for the company. Take that list to your next review meeting with your leaders concrete evidence of how you've been successfully working the plan. So you got to remember, if your leader isn't open to creating a growth plan with you, or discussing how you could move up in the company, it might be time to think about whether or not that's the right place for you. Having no opportunity to grow is actually probably one of the most common reasons people leave their job. And finally, be patient and persistent. Remember, this isn't going to happen overnight. So don't go back to your leader in a month and say See, I'm following the plan. Where's the money if you're putting the plan into action in a healthy work culture, and if you truly delivering what you've agreed to, you're going to get a raise without having to bring it up again. However, if it's been a year since you and your leader to develop your growth plan, and you've been knocking out the park, but you still have not seen any sign of a raise or promotion, then it's fine to request another meeting with them and respectfully reference the plan you created. Now that there we go, that's a little framework for you getting a raise and or promotion takes time, perseverance and patience. So hopefully that overview is a good refresher and might help you. Okay, so to this week's interview. Now, Roland Roberts

shows Bo I think I've said that right is a financial overseas technology entrepreneur who started life actually as a financial advisor. And then he started, built and sold not one, but two financial technology companies. Roland is a great guy full of energy, humor, and wisdom. Hello, and thanks for joining me on another edition of real money stories. I'm your host, Jason Butler. And this week, I'm joined by someone I first met we think, about 28 years ago, and we'll get to that in a minute we met in the reception of ITN who do the independent? That's right. So we met we met in the reception area. And for some reason we've never ever managed to shake each other off, and I'm so pleased to have what I call an old mark or an old friend, someone who has been on a similar journey to me, but considerably richer than me. So here's what's gonna make you really interesting. Now, I've got to say this right? It's Roland rubber shoe is Bo, is that right?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 11:01
Not even close. Jason not even close. But don't worry, as I keep telling everybody. I can't even pronounce it. So it's particularly difficult is Ravitch, Jericho, something like that?

Jason Butler 11:13
Whoa, sharevault okay, right. Yeah, well, anyway, it's gonna be in the, it's gonna be in the notes below. It's a complicated name, but I like to try and get people's names, which we'll call your Roland. So yes, please wrote it. Thank you so much again, for your time. Please tell everyone what you kind of do for your day job, and then we'll get into your backstory.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 11:29
So I run, I'm a founding director of a software company called type advice. We specialize in providing practice management systems for firms of independent financial advisors. So we've been operating now for the last decade, last 10 years. And we do things very differently. We, our previous business was also providing back office systems to financial advisors, as you remember. But this one is a special one. And, yeah, it's 10 years old. And then we just sold it. So more about that later, I

Jason Butler 11:59
guess. We're actually rolling, you've had several businesses, you had a financial advice business, then you had that that software business, which was very successful. And now you've had this business, which you've just sold, but you're still working in it. So So Roland is a serial entrepreneur. And he's, he's also a qualified financial adviser as well. So you should know about that money. So I thought he was a really interesting person. And he's got an interesting backstory. So tell us with a surname that we can't say properly. That's obviously heritage from Eastern Europe.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 12:27
Its polar share, my father came over, my father came over during the beginning of the beginning of the war. So he and my grandmother traipse across Europe to get to England and and that's where they settled. So that's, that, in itself is a fascinating story. And I guess you can imagine, full of drama, and full of horror, but they made it. And my grandfather also was serving in the Polish Army, actually as a paratrooper, and later became a general of the Polish Army. And, and yeah, they both they all made it back to England. Let's put it that way. After a number of very exciting adventures, but and so we stayed here.

Jason Butler 13:07
And did did they come to the country with with much in terms of possessions or money? Or did they sort of have to start again?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 13:14
No, absolutely nothing, absolutely nothing. You know, all of their possessions were lost, obviously, in that mad scramble that they're getting in Second World War, you know, gold rings and diamond rings and stuff like that were secreted away, sewn in seams of, you know, clothing, and came in, often in very good use at critical times where they needed to do something to escape had to the means to do that. So very, very interesting story, but scary times. We have no idea Jason.

Jason Butler 13:43
So so it's very interesting. And I'm fascinated by that war generation. So what was it like growing up because you You, you, you said is the Oxford that you said to your family that you grew up in?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 13:54
Yeah, well, I'm in Oxfordshire, but I was born in Birmingham. So we originally came from the West Midlands, that's where my father was working. That's where he met my mother. So yes, we're in the middle of West Midlands. But then, after my father sort of got his various qualifications, he landed an opportunity in Aylesbury as the managing director of a company called anti ference, which at that time, say television aerials, right, and beginning of television airing, really, and so we moved down to Oxford, and we found a lovely little village called strat, nordli. And we've been here ever since my phone's nonsense dad, unfortunately, but we moved to London, after I left school, up in Lancashire, moved to London, and lived there for 25 years, which is where I met my wife, we started having babies and as they started growing older, pre teenage years, the whole family home became available. It was just got too big for other dads, so we, we feel everything about every back. Yeah.

Jason Butler 14:50
I mean, I'm fascinated to know what bear in mind your father was obviously born around about the Second World Wars and you know, whatever.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 14:58
3019 30s

Jason Butler 15:01
grandparents and what was it like growing up? I mean, because he was he a high earner or was it very difficult? So, you know, what did you learn about money and work and, and the whole, the whole shebang.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 15:14
Then my dad was very driven. He was an interesting character. And, you know, when he, well, my grandparents, obviously they were living in London in that stage there in Fulham, and very mindful of the fact that the bombs were falling all around. So they got my dad out of out of London sent him up to study his college, a Jesuit run boarding school in Lancashire. And so dad when he arrived at Hot a place at 19, whatever it was, I think he must be 1939 1940 couldn't speak a word of English thrown into this sort of boarding school in the middle of nowhere. So he had very few options. He had to, you know, swim or sink and he chose to swim. And actually he became the head boy. Eventually he left school having been head boy of certainly his college, captain of rugby league. I think it was a captain of boxing as well. So he was very driven, very driven gentlemen. He then left Stonyhurst. Now, of course, he could speak very good English, went to Imperial College, and did in electrical engineering, before moving his career into various consultancies, the path center, I think peer center, and then as I say, came to LSB as managing director of adherence. So he was, he was, you know, he was a high flyer, you know, he started from nothing, but took his opportunities and worked really hard, very bright guy worked really hard and laid the foundation of our our future.

Jason Butler 16:40
And what did you learn about both work spending and money and wealth creation from your father, in your formative years, you're going up because clearly a character like that has gone from literally can't speak English all the way up to managing director of a major company, you must have picked up some very strong signals?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 16:57
Well, I think in common with that generation, they were very careful with money. Whereas the course, when I left school, when I went down to Southampton, then came to London. I was not really particularly academic. I mean, yes, I got my a levels, I go into Imperial College to do electrical engineering as well, or follow my dad's footsteps. But I hated that. So I left and then did a degree in medical photography, which was an interesting degree,

Jason Butler 17:23
degree medical photography. Of course, of course, it's fascinating.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 17:26
And it was, was really interesting, but, but when I was UT graduate, I suddenly realized that I didn't wanna spend my time in National Health Service. It just wasn't me. I was very much more entrepreneurial. And so I was a bit of a black sheep of the family, I was sort of a typical as far as the things that dad stood for. It was very strict. And I was sort of liberated. As soon as I got into town, I was all about actually, let's just be me. And so I was much more less concerned about less driven, I was much more focused on having a bit of fun. Of course, I found that I was actually quite entrepreneurial. So when I finished my degree, I started selling life insurance door to door. And that's actually soon after we met. I think that's what it seemed, just before we met. So I was a life insurance salesman and that sort of commission only this was pre 86. Of course, that's pre the Financial Services Act, were was pretty much the Wild West. So. So yeah, I joined Liberty life, I really enjoyed the culture is quite liberating. In a way, I became quite successful at selling life insurance. And and and that sort of set the scene for, I guess, my future businesses that popped along. And I'm

Jason Butler 18:37
fascinated to know, what were the money messages in the family as you were growing up? I mean, clearly, you've got a very driven father, he must have been starting to earn some serious money. And you did, and I know, I've seen your house. It's lovely. And that was your father mother's house originally. You know, not is a lovely place to be. Did you have an expectation that you were a winner, or that you would win? And that you would somehow get control of your life and that you wouldn't be sort of working for someone or you wouldn't have money problems? Or can you remember, like being a sort of 1819 Did

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 19:06
you have a vision that I've, I've, I've always been a massive optimist. And I guess I've always figured that things will work out. So I've never overanalyze stuff. I've never worried too much as long as I've had enough cash. I've never obsessed about it. A lot of people just focus on money. When actually money is enabler. It's like oxygen. You know, if you've got enough you don't think about Yeah, exactly. If you don't have enough that you think of nothing else, and you obsess about it, so I've never been particularly obsessive about money, but I have been driven through achieving things. So I've always wanted and so as soon as I was able to get onto the property ladder in 1984, I bought my first house in in 1984, while I was working with ally Dunbar and and then of course, that was a time when house prices were exploding. So you sort of began to realize that if you're slightly cute and you are a bit aware, you could start making a lot of money. dealing with things like property. And so I moved to Hackney, the East End of London, which at that stage was just beginning in the 80s. In the 80s Yeah, it was. Yeah, it really was my first house was 30 grand. A year later, I sold it for 60 moved to Docklands, you know, where the two three bedroom house was 60 grand, because it was the underdogs there was just nothing there except a red brick road and lots of corrugated iron and, and then sold that house a year later for 127 and started collecting houses, you know, which sounds awful in today's terms, because of course, we were looking at a very different world, you know, asset values were nowhere near as high as they were today. But of course, interest rates were much higher. So you always balancing the money you borrowed and how much that cost with the growth in the potential asset value side. I did quite a lot of buying and selling houses. And then I met my wife and we bought our house in Blackheath, a beautiful. Seven bedroom, Victorian house, actually, it was incredible. And it was a quarter million quid you know, it's like, nothing the same house now? 32 million pounds? Yeah. Yeah. So

Jason Butler 21:05
yeah, that's a lovely year as well. I know it because we, my wife and I, we live around the corner when we just got married. Yeah, and we have a flat there as well.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 21:11
Exactly. So I was I enjoyed the thrill of building doing stuff being free of the normal, professional constraints if you like. So I was I was my own boss. And I've always been unemployable, really, or I've never been able to fit easily into that sort of employment role. I've always been a bit of a free spirit when it comes to doing what I wanted to do.

Jason Butler 21:33
So I'm just interested because the late 80s and early 90s, for many of our listeners who weren't even born just then or want to live, the 80s was a period of certainly the late 80s, mid to late 80s was a period of adjustment and change in the UK far more than we'd ever had before. What was your when you were sort of going through there? What were your peers? How were you coming across to your peers? Did you change your circle of friends? Did you evolve with them? Was there any kind of external pressure? Were you totally internally driven? Or what was going on there? No, we

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 22:04
I mean, you know, of course, use your friends, your friends, aren't they? And, you know, of course, they all took their own path somewhere with the police, others were doing engineering, others were musicians, you know, you had we had quite an eclectic mixture mix of champions, and he just go with the flow. You know, you you tend not to analyze overanalyze, you know, we all got, you know, there were five of us living in a house in East Village. Soon after we left college, and you know, we all did our thing came back together and have fun, you know, and, and that was the life we lived in those days. As it happens, one of my mates, it was quite a fun story. was the fifth Baronet of London. inherited he was. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, yeah, absolutely. And, and there was a time when he decided he'd get one of his sort of family heirlooms from the bank. And this consisted of sort of a diamond tiara necklace and earrings. Now, when we're talking about diamond tiara necklace and earrings, we're actually talking about a Sainsbury's bag full of diamonds by gold. In a house at that stage, the house we lived in was probably 21 grand, the street was probably worth about 5 million, or if tops three or 4 million pounds, but this thing was probably out three 400,000 pounds of value, then in the 80s. It was incredible. Anyway, it was funny story, because we were sort of dancing around the room with all this stuff on you know, this is Queen Victoria stuff, really. And after we had our fun, Chris decided that you should probably take it back to the bank. So he did. And he laid it all out. And it's very, very much so that's very nice. And he said, Well, off you go by thank you very much thing. And they said, Well, if we go see, Christopher, there's a small thing of the insurance is it well, what you mean what we need to have it valued for insurance purposes? Okay, well, that's fine. Go ahead. He said, Well, yes, sir. But the valuation, sir. Yes, well, we need you to pay for it. How much is it it's a percentage of the value. So it's like two grand to event in those days doesn't sound like a lot. But that's a lot of money. Two grand to have these things value disable bagger there, so he picked them all up, put them back into the central bank took them home, in East East Village. Then the next day went off to him to America on holiday leaving these gems these gems under under the bed in the house. Anyway, I was working for uni gate in those days. So I was a milkman because I actually was before I left college. So I was still at college. I was doing summer jobs as a milkman. And we'd had a bit of a party the night before and anyway got up at two o'clock as you do walk downstairs and noticed the front doors open. I thought I strange one of my chums must have left it open all the way out. So I shot it, went to the loo came back went to bed. And anyway when I got up two hours later, I noticed that the the louver windows in the lounge were all gone. Basically they've been pulled out and we'd be hit by the East London louver gang. So this bunch of criminals that jumped in the house were about to rubber side obviously disturb them. they'd run out the front door, and I thought the gems so. So I rushed upstairs. Fortunately they were still in the St. Louis bag. If only they knew what they missed, it was daggering oh and say, so put them in my pannier cycle. pannier cycled off to uni gate in broccoli, went up to the gate branch manager and said, Look, I've got something in my panniers, I need to put them in your safe. You don't want to know what's in the bag? He said, yeah, that's fine. No problem at all. I said Johnson know what's in the bag, he said, though, and that was it. So they went to the safe. And then they were picked up a few days later than handed back to, to Chris's mom, stepmom. On the steps for samples. It was very nice

Jason Butler 25:52
story, but it's

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 25:54
sort of lunacy that happens when you're a youth in town. Yeah,

Jason Butler 25:56
yeah. And he had no perception of it. So tell us about the, you know, the early days of being self employed as a life insurance salesman, because basically, you didn't earn, he didn't sell things you didn't earn. So how did you navigate that and pay bills and stuff like that?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 26:10
I will. I was working seven days a week. Yeah, that was it just worked. You know, we had fun doing it. But we just worked and you know, knocking on doors, helping people in the streets. It was just, you know, telephoning people. It was just great. And it was a great social life actually, because you met so many interesting people. I mean, you know, Jason from your time when you are early days, like Shaun salesman, you met the most incredible people. And you built recently you lovely relationships with those people spanning offered many years, often 10s of years. And so I loved the life, it was great fun. But yeah, you were motivated, you didn't sell you didn't earn. And that wasn't to say that you sold for the sake of selling, you know, you obviously had to be honorable in the way you dealt with things and sold the right things. And but ultimately, you didn't sell you did not and Master of any business today, you know, you don't sell your what you've created, you know, you don't earn you go bust. So, but you weren't motivated, and I was very focused on the ratios. So with any selling, I think there's a direct relationship between your activity and your success. And I actually distilled it down to not quite science, but I did the numbers. So every telephone call I made I recorded every speak to I recorded every meeting I had every sales I made and every value, sale value, I calculated. And I manage this or monitor this over a number of months. And it transpired that actually every phone call I made or every contact I made regardless of the outcome earned me 100 quid for every for every 10 people I spoke to nine people would say no, one person would say yes, that would be 1000 quid 100 pounds a contract.

Jason Butler 27:47
So that's a fascinating way of reframing how you're thinking about activity, because activity gets results as long as it's the right activity, and you've broken it down to you're not eating the elephant in one sitting. You're taking it in stages, and you're seeing the end result rather than see the pain of rejection or things not happening. Nose, nose is one step nearer to a yes. And the yeses, add up to money. Right. So that's good.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 28:06
And the thing about yeses, because that's an important point, because motivation is a very key factor here, you know, that you don't know when the yeses are going to come. And so you know, you might have 100 nose and then 10 yeses, or you might have one day and you know, yes, so you can never sort of assume and you have to keep that enthusiasm up. I remember once, one week, I had a whole week of meeting scheduled It was incredible. The prospecting we've done the week before is brilliant. I had 40 meetings lined up in that week. Yeah, it was incredible. It's like back to back meetings. Every single one of them blew out, every single one of them. It was like, you know, that's another meeting cancelled and another meeting cancelled. And you know, when you're faced with that, that sort of massive excitements, then all of a sudden, by the end of the week, I was utterly deflated. You know, you've got a choice, you give up and you can cry, or you get on with it. And I think that's the point it just if you're if you've got that right attitude, and the mental resilience, you just say, well, there it is, that's life, and you keep going, because what else is there? You know, what other choices do you have? And of course, if you are earning, we're working on a commission only basis, he stopped selling you stopped earning. So you know, it was it was self fulfilling, in many respects, you just have to keep going.

Jason Butler 29:20
And I'm fascinated about that mindset, because it's, you know, abundance versus scarcity and fixed versus growth mindset. You know, disability wants to come back from failures and knock backs and disappointments. But secondly, to realize that if you've made a mistake, you're just You've just learned how not to do something, and you've got to get better, right? So if that's something you learn as a skill, did you innately have it or did you observe it in other people? Did you have a mentor or a role model to sort of follow?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 29:46
Now I was far too far too focused. I think I needed a role model or a mentor. I was just busy me. I mean, I you know, I could have been probably if I'd been a little bit more analytical, a bit more bit a bit more focused. I could have probably done things differently. I certainly learned through my experiences, but it was more intuitive than, than unanalyzed, I guess, you know, but that all of that experience, you know, really held me Good, good status, we then moved from the rather raw, direct selling approach to a much more sort of qualified sort of professional, independent slash advice. Business, which of course, we set up later Docklands where we had key associates, and then obviously, that set the foundation for my move into software. So sorry, obviously, all of that all of that experience that you accumulate through your early years, just enables you to become increasingly resilient and robust as you confront new challenges and future. It's like a bottom line is, is the bottom line is, you know, rejection, failure doesn't kill you. It's there to educate you as it is formed, it is to inform you as to what to do, and perhaps what not to do in future.

Jason Butler 31:01
Absolutely. So tell me about the entrepreneurial seizure you had or rather, what encouraged you to start your own independent financial advice business having been a sort of a self employed sales rep, as it worked for companies, insurance companies, what was that? What What did you learn about that? What was the motivation? And what did you learn through doing

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 31:19
it? Well, I suppose it was an inevitable progression from where I want, I spent a few years with lipsy life and ally Dunbar for a year, then I became a mortgage broker, as you do working as a self employed consultant, but within somebody else's business. And you get to the stage where you think, actually, you know what, I could just do this myself, you know, I want my own business. And that's exactly what we did. So I built my own IFA practice in Docklands didn't have to commute to to Mill Hill anymore, so that was always a good tick in the box. And, and that was really the beginning of building a business in my own image. In fact, it can associate my iPhone doctrines was born from key securities, which failed ultimately, we over traded became too big, too quickly. and managing that business with my brother and a few other directors was a really interesting experience, because you see how your ability to deal with things changes and evolves as the business grows. And, you know, certain people have great skills, which are perfect at a certain stage in a business's development the bit but then become irrelevant later, as the business grows to the next stage. And you just need to recognize, you know, your capabilities and where you fit in the growth of a business because the business itself takes on its own life, you know, whereas before it's your baby after a while it becomes its own being

Jason Butler 32:37
and you can't be a busy fall, can't you just running a business, but making no money and just being running yourself? ragged? Yeah. So you had that first key associates or whatever it was or securities. And that didn't work for whatever reason, it just was a big busy beast that took the life out of you then make you rich. You then started key associate associates,

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 32:54
which is on the dock, which was the London Docklands branch of key securities. So so key associates became my business. So I got rid of all the partners that basically just running my small IFA in the dogs at a time now adoptions was accelerated,

Jason Butler 33:09
when we met knew we're doing very well. Yeah, absolutely. So um, so tell me about now, as you were in London, were there major things you learn about personal finance and money, bear in mind that you were starting to advise clients in a more professional way, you clearly had learned a lot about you know, you bought some sold some properties. You've had that failure in the business and started your own business, you started to get ahead, what was it you were learning them by that stage about the money and the role of money and how to be make better decisions about it, both from your own experience and what you're doing with clients?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 33:40
I guess the the really interesting, aha moment for me was when I actually started recording how I was spending my money. And that sounds a little bit peculiar. But I was very much of the mindset that unless you know, what your money is doing, it's very difficult to make any decisions. And the money, again, is a bit like oxygen, if you, you know, you don't really think about it when you've got enough. But when you haven't got enough, you think it's nothing else. And, and I felt that a lot of people, a lot of clients that I was seeing had no idea, you know, they knew how much they're earning, because, of course, they saw it in their waste, that they had no idea where it went, and therefore had very little ability to plan. And so the first thing that I did with all of my clients was get them to start using Quicken, which was a simple personal accounts package where they would send me an expense, record everything they spent, and obviously, they could then see and analyze it after a few months, just where their money was going. And that for a lot of them was a complete revelation. And, you know, we're talking certain partners or firms of accountants who had never really thought of it in that way and started using it and actually changed transformed the way they thought funny. So, you know, I think that was a really big and important revelation is you know, before you can make any meaningful decisions, you need to know what is you know, what your spending is, and where are you Money is going because then you can regulate it and make better decisions, you then can describe or you can understand, you know what you can afford, and what you should afford in order to get the right outcomes for your plan. So, you know, that I think was really great. A great, you know, learning point for me is just understanding how you get control of your money, and understand where the money's going, so you're in a better position to do something about it and plan accordingly. So you know, anybody who is worried about money, then the first thing you should be doing is recording everything you spend using QuickBooks or whatever, so that you can then analyze your money and it's liberating, because you can immediately see the impact that two pounds 50, or three pounds, 50, or four pounds, you're spending on a coffee every day has day has, as you know, in terms of the overall cost across your life, you know, debit get, it's all coming out of your net income. So smoking, drinking, you know, coffees, all this stuff, you know, all of a sudden, you're spending hundreds of pounds a month on stuff that you're not even recognizing as spending at all. Yeah, and it's that sort of stuff. So it's about doing stuff on purpose. And as soon as you start, you know, I'm I got married in 1989. As soon as you start building responsibility in your life, having family, of course, that becomes increasingly critical, because it's no longer just you. It's other people's lives that are in fact, impacted by the decisions you're making.

Jason Butler 36:22
And I'm interested to know, particularly for those people who are listening, who are business owners, or aspiring to be business owners, I've got this little side hustle, and they got a main job somewhere. There's always this temptation to mingle the business with the person who isn't there. How did you navigate that kind of try to keep the things separate? And almost kind of have two different hats? How did you how did you avoid them becoming a big mush, and therefore you not having the same clarity that you need to be able to control your spending on both sides, the business and personal

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 36:53
will look, you know, we were very lucky, I went to my office, I worked, I came home. And yes, I went early, and I came home, you know, seven, eight o'clock most days. But you know, the important thing is to be able to switch off and to close the door. And to basically have a personal life. Because, you know, you owe that to your family as well, you know, they don't see you during the week, because you're, you're busy. And so it's actually being able to compartmentalize that and try to, you know, close off as much as you possibly can when you're at home.

Jason Butler 37:22
But I mean specifics of the finances, because it is easy to use your your business's little cash box, when you're a bit short on money personally and just sort of not have the discipline, did you find that that was something you had to be careful of.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 37:35
Now, I've always considered the company as a completely different entities and my personal, it's really important not to get confused, your business is your business. And depending on what you have, what plans you have for your business, you need to look after it and treat it well, which means you need to bring in the appropriate, you know, controls over the money, because you just can't take cash out and spend it willy nilly because that was the point you're not really in business, are you? So no, I mean, you know, the company was the company and even though you know, associates, for example, and then keys securities, sorry. He software, and laterally and I was the you know, the the main shareholder, although two of us as partners in key software. You know, it's really clear the business is absolutely the business and the money in the business account is the business's money. It's all so you simply separate the two out? Sure.

Jason Butler 38:26
And in terms of the the move from financial advice into software, just tell me very briefly about how that happened. And what that meant to you personally, in terms of your money journey?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 38:36
Well, it was interesting, because in common with a lot of financial advisors, you know, we were looking at ways we could operate more efficiently in the mid 90s or early 2000s 94, actually. And you know, I looked at the back office systems available to run my business and none of them really work the way we did. And it was then that my now business partner, Michel Phillpotts sort of bowled through the door. He's too was an IFA on the art of dog. So he was in a couple of buildings down. But he had a very different business model to mine. He was providing or outsourcing services to phase around pensions, annuity broking and Petra transfer analysis. And so originally, they were direct to consumer, but then they became a service provider to phase. And so he came along to, to present his business and his service to me. And at the end of the presentation, I thought, Wow, that was fantastic. And he thought, excellent. You clients, and I said, No, no, no, the service is irrelevant. You don't do what you were promoting. So it was interesting, but no good. But the software who built the software, because I looked fantastic. And he said, Well, I did. So I said, Oh, well, I've got this problem. I need to build a back office system. Can you help? And so he said, Well, alright, and so he built a back office system. It worked for us. And I just thought, Well look, if this was at the beginning of windows, you know, because prior to that, we were using C prompts, das based systems fairs and stuff. Yeah, exactly. all that sort of stuff. And of course was the first windows sort of solution. So I just loved it. I said, Look, it's good enough for us, it'll be good enough for other for IFA, let's go into business. And so that's when we set up the software. And that was the beginning of our software adventure. The IFA funded the software business to begin with, because of course, it had no clients, it had no product. And so you know, Mitch and the team that was growing, were basically being financed by by key associates, but that's actually fine. And that's another thing, it's being not too possessive about stuff, if you want to give life to stuff you've got to give. And, and, you know, I've always found that, you know, as long as you're open and and generous, you know, actually, giving is often more satisfying than taking, and it's back to this attitude around money again, you know, how much do you need. And if you can give life to something by investing, then that's great. And that's what we did. And so, over a period of time, a key software became by far the dominant part of the business. So I handed over literally gave my IFA business to the guys that were working in it. And I moved across the software company, and that essay took off from there really. So 10 years later, having been probably one of the main dominant back office providers to this space, we were approached by two other organizations operating in financial services capita, and the exchange. Both of them wanted to buy a business, we eventually sold to kaputar. And worked with them for a number of years to pursue a vision they had, which hasn't happened didn't work out. So we then left after a period of time, and then got back together again, a vision I got back together again in 2010. Start to improvise.

Jason Butler 41:36
Yeah. Interestingly, how old were you when you started time for advice in your late 40s? Well,

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 41:42
it was 19. So 2010. So yeah, so I was 50.

Jason Butler 41:48
All right. So the point I want to make there is because you're quite a young looking chap, what but the point is, you are 50, then and you're just getting going, right, so in all previous work that you've had, so the point I'm making is you're never, you're never too old, you're never past it. I mean, I don't think you'll ever stop building businesses and building value. And that's your mindset. The point, the message to everyone listening there is that your age is immaterial. And your personal financial situation is your material, that building abundance and building value in the world. And Bo, the definition getting paid for that value can happen throughout your life. And if Rolo chooses to build another business and make loads of millions out of it. And he wants to give it all to charity, and I'm starting my own one. So don't worry, you can might as well. But the point that's the point is that you're at 15, you're just getting going when your knees have a lot of success, and you're still cracking on.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 42:38
I think that's the point, isn't it? You're I'm 61 I don't feel 61 He must be He must be nearly there. Imagine, Jason, how old are you?

Jason Butler 42:46

5150. Are

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 42:48
you really much older? Yeah, thanks.

Unknown Speaker 42:52
I mean, you know,

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 42:53
but you've had a hard life.

Unknown Speaker 42:54
Yeah, absolutely. But no, I

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 42:55
mean, you know, it's how old you feel. And I don't feel old at all, I feel young, energized and excited by life. As I said, right at the beginning, I'm an optimist. And I just believe good things will happen. And even when good things don't happen, I still believe good things happen. Maybe I'm just stupid.

Jason Butler 43:13
And tell everyone about the one of the things I'm real keen on is that people understand that you have to have equal measure in your life of pleasure and purpose, whatever the pleasure in whatever the purpose is to you. And you have to oscillate between the two. That's what the research shows, right? So as long as your meaning and purpose none of you've got pleasure in sort of some sort of day to day stuff. That's great. But you've got a particular hobby, which we're going to get involved in, hopefully later this year in COVID restrictions ease, but you've got a hobby, you got to tell everyone about it.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 43:39
Yeah, yeah, it's, well, I fly an aerobatic airplane. It's called an extra 300. And I'm very lucky. It's just at the local aerodrome. So two miles from me here. It was originally owned by a guy called Brian Mocambo who was the UK National Championship aerobatic champion, and I bumped into the guys that owned it. Well, about 11 years ago, I saw it fly over my house. I thought, Oh, look at that. I've been flying all my life by the way. You know, gliders, motor gliders, helicopters. I bought jopa squaddies Yak 52, which is a Russian fighter trainer about 1314 years ago, and I did my ppl in that my private pilot's license in in the 50, which is interesting. Probably one of the only people to do it's 1930s fighter trainers to say horrible thing. Anyway, so when I got over that one, I bumped into the guys that had this extra night I took a shower and the business Angel pty limited. So So yeah, I know, fly that it's a real privilege. It's awesome.

Jason Butler 44:38
Yeah. And we're going to do hopefully an interview in that because you get a two seater. So you're going to take hopefully, fingers crossed, we'll take me up we'll do an interesting interview where we'll what we'll probably do is we may we'll do because everyone keeps saying to me, what am I going to do my story. So that's what I see if we potentially can let Ronan interview me while he's doing acrobatics in the plane and recording it and that should be a monster episode and because I've noticed I'm a big fan.

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 45:01
It's hysterical. Jason, I've done a few of them actually. And who's in the front seat interviews are very, very funny. I mean, obviously, you know, the you sit in the front seat, literally So, so you got a great view of your face from the camera. And I'm in the backseat. And yeah, we just go up to 567 1000 feet, fly in the clouds and then do some fun stuff. It's always interesting to see how people react. Now the good news is, I'll be very gentle with you, mate will let you do what you want to do. But

Jason Butler 45:27
well, I did learn to fly early 20s. Don't forget, so if I, if I can, if I can land up if I can land an aircraft at Biggin Hill, which is a bug, because it's right on the top of a hill cross winds. I think I can cope with acrobatics. But obviously, my flying skills are long gone for a long history, so I never get them up. Just before we wind up today and appreciate how gracious to be me your time? Do you want to just share with people what kind of you've learned about the role of money in people's lives and how people can win better and make it their servant, not the master?

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 45:56
Well, as I said, Look, it's oxygen isn't it, and you know, it, the important thing is to nurture it, to be careful with it, to be aware of it, but not to let it rule your life. You know, I often meet people who have nothing in their life, but money, that's the thing they obsess about. And I think that's really sad, you know, because they missed the point of living. You know, it's recognizing how much is enough. And once you know how much is enough, then you can get on with the rest of your life. And, you know, if you are entrepreneurial, of course, in business, you have to be very careful with money, because it's very easy to spend it in business. So you have to be pragmatic, sensible, focused on what's important and not overstretch yourself. Because as soon as you get yourself into debt, that's when you are on the backfoot unexposed. And so it's just being aware, not being obsessive, but being pragmatic and sensible, and society aware of where the money is going. So you can do stuff with it.

Jason Butler 46:58
Absolutely. Absolutely. grown into a rock star. I know you've just recently sold your business, another exit. So follow this guy. I'm sure that I'll be writing some more about him. And I'm doing some more stuff about as part of my, what I call wealth creators series, which I'll be doing later this year. That runs the top guy, thank you for your time. Really appreciate your insights. It's been fantastic to hang out with you,

Roland Rawicz-Szczerbo 47:21
Jason, it's always lovely to spend some time with you. Thank you.

Jason Butler 47:30
Thanks for listening to real money stories with me, Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit Vanguard investor.co.uk for more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you may get back less than you invested

Transcribed by https://otter.ai