66. Ryan King Makes Money Simple

In this episode, I speak to Ryan King, assurance associate at EY and social media personal finance enthusiast.

Ryan explains how he first became interested in learning about money and investing as a teenager and how this developed as he went through university.

Ryan’s enthusiasm for learning about money inspired him to go on to create his own online financial education platform, Making Money Simple. Through this, he aims to help those in their 20s and 30s educate themselves about all things financial through easy to understand graphics, audio, and video.

A very open discussion from which young people, in particular, can draw many useful money insights from.

If you would like to check out Ryan’s Instagram page, click here.

Episode Transcript

0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out on your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less, and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down, as well as up and you may get back less than you invest in.

Hello, Jason here. Thanks for joining me on another edition of real money stories. This week's interview is with a chap called Ryan King. He's the brains behind money made simple, quite a young guy. But I was quite interested to speak to him because he's got a fresh take on how we can think and act and handle our money. And he's in the beginning of his money journey. But I just thought it's a nice perspective to listen to a younger person who's not acting or thinking or feeling like a victim. And he's, he's really taking the bull by the horns with his money and certainly sharing what he knows of other people. So I think you're gonna like that one. That's an interesting interview. What have you been up to? Well, this week, just gone, we've really been sort of making the final push to get myself build, project sort of inside the house finished. If you're not aware, you can go to my YouTube channel, Jason Butler financial wellbeing. And you can see how I've been building a house over the last year in my part, my garden. And it's a barn style house. And it's really coming together quite nicely. And I've learned so much from doing it. Everything from project management, budgeting, procurement, managing teams, the logistics of different trades and services. But it's thankfully, we've been blessed with really good people who working for us. And pretty much the outsides all done the claddings on and all the brick works done. And we're now just sort of finishing off doing things like patios and pathways and all this sort of outside landscaping, and then we'll be just dressing the inside. So check that out. If you haven't seen it. It's quite interesting. Whether you're doing a refurb, or whether you're doing a rebuild, or brand new build. It's quite interesting. You can, you know, build assets and make value by basically, you know, learning a new skill, but it's not for everyone. And I would say that building your own house, you've got to have a lot of patience and be quite well organized. I've certainly I've certainly had to dig deep on those over the coming last year. Now, last week, I did on my Instagram Live, I was joined by a good friend of mine, Fanny Snaith. And we covered what we call the typical money myths, we covered loads of money myths, and I thought I'd just share a few of those with you, you can check that out, by the way on my YouTube channel, or still on Instagram, @jbthewealthman. So let's cover a couple of these these wealth, these money and wealth myths, because I think when a myth is, you know, it comes because people sort of either believe it, because they've internalized it and told themselves a story, or they've heard it said, you know, loads of times, and they, it then becomes kind of like fact, right. So, that's just cover a couple of these to sort of give you a feel for for the typical myths that we get. So here's one, I don't need an emergency farm because I can use my credit card, or overdraft? Well, I have heard that, in fact, the last time I heard it was from a tradesman who was working on my house.

Now getting into debt should never be the way out of any situation. Now, I do understand that there are times in people's lives when they have to take non mortgage debt, because there's just no other option. But when you take debt on of any description, there's always interest and monthly payments. And even if it's one of these 0% credit cards, you know, you've got to pay the money back and you've got to start having monthly payments at some stage. And even if you move the balance around, you're still gonna pay an arrangement fee, so you're still paying for the privilege. And if you're working on getting out of debt, having a starter or a small emergency fund means you're gonna avoid compromising your progress. And from a psychological perspective, it's going to be much more effective, ensuring you continue on a debt free journey, if you've got an emergency fund, and also telling yourself that debt isn't an option forces you to put more money aside, and it's actually the first stage to gaining control and mastering your money. So that's a good one there. Number one here this is I've heard this so many times. And in fact, the last time was when I was in a car dealership thinking about buying a new car a couple of years ago. Buying a car in finance means I can put my money towards more useful things. Now you may well have told yourself that you may even believe it, but it's a myth. As I always say, I'm having a flash car on finance, but no assets is not a good look. And the presence of monthly payments in your life is, Well, certainly from an emotional perspective, it's counterproductive to achieving good money mindset. And if you want to get ahead with building wealth, and you don't have payments in your life, and that's really important, there's not a problem with having nice things, you just have to be able to afford them. So my view is that putting money aside is what it's all about, it's putting money aside to build up the money to buy the car that you want. So even if you're financing something is 0%, you've got monthly payments, if you can't make those monthly payments, you will lose the car or affect your credit rating, or more importantly, you'll end up losing any equity you've got in the car if you've got any so so even if it's 0% finance, there's always a cost one way or another whether it's psychological, whether it's an obligation, whether it restricts your cash flow. So my advice is always to spend the money and feel the pain and buy the car that you can afford. And we know that the money principles are that if you're not a millionaire, don't buy a new car. And if you're if you're buying a secondhand cars, you're not a millionaire or even if you are no make sure it's not going to be more a car, you're not buying a car more than about half your annual income. So if you're earning 30 grand, you don't buy a car more than 15 grand and certainly not new. So there's just a peace of mind and knowing that you own what you've got. Number one here is pensions are a bad investment. Or, you know, my dad had one of those and he lost all his money. Well, a pension is just either a tax wrapper, or if it's a final salary scheme, it's an obligation from your former or current employer. And they're not bad investments, because it depends what you put them in. If you put your money into Korean precious metals fund or the emerging markets biotech fund, and it happens to plummet, just when you need to take the money out, that is a bad investment. But pensions themselves are tax efficient savings account. That's all they are. So it really depends what you put your money in. And here's the other thing here is if you've got pensions, whether you've got one or several, to check where they're invested and what they're charging you and what sort of the returns would be relative to other things. So check that one out. That's another good one here. Old Style investing is a thing of the past, crypto is the way forward when it comes to building serious wealth. Well, what a load of old rubbish, look, crypto, or Bitcoin or any of those ones. They may be, you know, you may be able to make a lot of money, and some people have made a tremendous amount. But it is really, it is like a Ponzi scheme because it relies on more and more people believing the story and paying you more than you paid for the item. It's just a means that if you accept it as a means of exchange for you to buy and sell things, that's fine. And that may well come to pass as the dominant thing. And it may well be more and more people believe it. But as Warren Buffett said, it's kind of, it's not going to end well, in his opinion. Now he may be old and passed it, I might be silly. I always say I'm too stupid to do the smart investments. My view is whether you believe in crypto or not, you've got to get your basics right. That's your emergency fund being debt free, controlling your spending, and putting money aside in traditional equities and bonds and property and stuff to build up wealth or when you can't or don't want to work. And then perhaps, then perhaps look at putting a small amount into crypto, but an amount that you are prepared to lose because there's all sorts of problems with different exchanges with security. And it's still like the Wild West out there. So not saying no, but you've got to be in the right position to do that.

Now this final one I'm just going to finish on is this old chestnut of buying a home on an average wage is impossible. So what I did was this, I looked at the figures. And if you take that the median income for an individual in the UK, and it will be different in other countries if you're listening in other countries, but check your own country's median earnings. The median income for person in the UK is 31,000. But the median household incomes that includes our income that's coming in from other people in the house is 37,000. So the average house price in the UK is 245,500. But you can check your own country's average price out. But obviously, when you're just starting out, you're not gonna buy the average property, you're gonna have to buy slightly below average. So let's say you paid 185,000. And let's presume you're going to be putting down a 20% deposit because that's what you would put down. So you're going to probably need about 37,000 pounds. So if you save 2000 pounds a month by holding down your living costs to the basic and possibly doing some side hustles you'd have to save your deposits in about three years. So you're gonna need 155,000 pounds that includes a bit for closing costs, you know, initial costs and stuff, and a 15 year mortgage at two and a half percent interest that's going to cost 1000 pound per month. That's the same as you've been saving for the deposit, but that'd be a multiple of about four times your household income. So it is possible I mean, the truth is if you really want to buy a house You can find a way but it will have to be one which you can afford. And you'll have to live frugally. And you're going to have to give up, you know, the nice to haves. But bear in mind that buying your dream home might not taste so sweet if you're strung up by high mortgage payments every month, and it's generally better to buy the rent in the long run. But if you're young, you might be better off renting for a while and using your money to start a business or improving your skills, and therefore your ability to earn money. So it is possible to buy a house but you've got to be ready for it. You've got to buy the house that you could afford in your given situation. And you've also got to bear in mind that sometimes it doesn't make sense to buy a house because you've got other things you need to do with your money. So like there's just some of the money myths do check them out. You can actually read a 10 of the written ones on my website, my blog, Jason-butler.com or watch the live on my YouTube channel. So hopefully that helps you. Good. Okay. Well, let's get into this week's interview. Very interesting guy, Ryan King from Making Money Simple. Today, I'm joined by Ryan King. Hello, Ryan.

11:06
Hello, Jason. Thank you for having me, mate. Yeah,

11:09
and what's your you your ACA? What are you known as?

11:14
Making Money Simple.

11:16
This guy is a dude. Now, if you haven't seen him already, on Instagram, making money simple this guy, every single little post every little tile one at a time he's trying to make the world a better relationship with money or what a what a top guy. So tell me just before we get into the backstory, tell us just what the whole motivation for that is and what it does and what you're trying to achieve with it.

11:36
So I originally started at the start 2019. And there's a few pretty free main reasons why I started that. The first one was just I've always been interested in money. And finance, always sort of read books sort of tried to gain knowledge around personal finance. The second reason was, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and that had a big impact on me, I feel like a lot of people have that same sort of feeling. And then the third reason was, I was sort of looking into passive income starting a side hustle. I was at uni at the time, but I sort of understood that I didn't just want to work a nine to five, and then that be it, I wanted to do something extra. So those three things all came together. And then 2019. I started it originally as a blog. And it's sort of grown from there since.

12:22
And you've got about 15,000 followers, haven't you? So what is it they love about your content? People? Do you think?

12:28
I'm not really sure now, hopefully, is that I tried to make it quite easy to understand. So jargon free. So even beginners or someone who has never invested before or studied elephants do a finance can understand the content, and also tried to make it relevant. So simply like index funds property. So yes, it's all big topics, but making them easy to understand. It's probably

12:52
Yeah, if you haven't checked it out, check his Instagram thing out making money. Simple. Fantastic. Well done. Now let Ryan, let's go back to little Ryan, in the early days, what were your sort of your earliest memories? Can you can you can you think of that?

13:08
I was quite lucky really growing up. I didn't really I haven't really got any bad connotations with money. I was quite privileged in the sense that my parents were both always had jobs. We always had a house always have food on the table, that sort of thing. But one of my earliest memories was my grandparents. I used to do chores for them around the house, and and each time my nan would give me a pound. So realistically, I was even getting a minimum wage.

earliest memories of earning money. And be as I said, I was quite lucky, I never really went without my parents both work. So I was quite lucky. In that sense.

13:50
A comfortable upbringing and your early your early sort of association was sort of do a load of work for your grant and get a quid,

13:59
Essentially yeah.

14:01
Okay. And what sort of conversations because I'm fascinated about this. Were there conversations about money? What can you remember, as you're growing up at the family home? Did you talk about money around the table? Or was it career focused? Or did you did your mom and dad make comments about other people and their spending? Was there any narrative at home?

14:19
We didn't really openly talk about money. But there would often if we wanted to buy something, my mom would probably be more the person that's against it, because she wouldn't like buying big sell at big purchases. Whereas My dad is a bit more, I guess, a bit more loose with money. He's not as probably frugal as my mom is. We didn't really openly discuss it. But I guess growing up I wasn't, I probably didn't really ask them many questions until I was probably about 15 or 16. So that probably also mean asking questions. So can you think

14:53
because most of our money values and our money scripts, as we call them, are embedded in us when we're children Where and even if we're not speaking about money, we learn from what we see. Right? So what did you learn? Where were your form? What format? What were your form? What views were you forming about money by the time you got to 16? What What was your attitude to it? We all about the good time we all about, you know, if I spend a fiver, it's like cut my arm off. And where were you on that scale?

15:20
I was always a bit of a saver. So when I got my first part time job at a supermarket, well, actually the newspaper round, but then I got a part time job at a supermarket during sixth form when I was 16. And I saved up money for perhaps a little more money pretty much for about two years, and then managed to buy myself my own MacBook in cash before I went to uni. So I'd say the same.

15:46
I mean, that was normal. That was it.

15:48
Yeah, but it probably wasn't normal. I was quite lucky in the sense that my birthday is in July. So I didn't really turn 18 until very late. So whereas a lot of my friends were going out to the pub, I obviously couldn't. So I'll just work in a supermarket, saving a bit of money. And I managed to get Yeah, my laptop. So I think that the saving gene, I guess the personal finance or stuff is probably embedded in me somehow. But one thing I would say that is I know my dad was big on paying off the mortgage, he wanted to pay off his mortgage by 50. So that was quite a big thing. And that's probably been embedded in me in terms of, you know, not having debt and paying down the mortgage, that sort of thing.

16:26
So did your dad ever talk about that before? 50? So you said there weren't many money conversations did did he? Did he express the desire to be debt free when you were growing up?

16:40
If I asked him, because as I sort of grew up, become a teenager and started studying stuff like business and economics in school, and I became more interested, then I would start asking questions, and that's when Yeah, looking back, being debt free is probably a good thing. Never use them words. He always said he just wanted to pay off his mortgage.

16:56
Yeah. But he did say, though, he did say, he wasn't saying he was dead. He said, I want to be mortgage free. Yeah. But that's

17:04
a good way to sum it up. Really? I guess he wanted to be debt free. And then he did it. So he was asking.

17:09
Well, it's an interesting thing. I'll just touch on this because I had three objectives hide my first financial plan done by the late great, David Norton, when I was 3029. After I come through being a train wreck of a lunatic with my money in my 20s, my 30 grand of unsecured debt, I mean, don't even go there. I hired a nightclub. That means stories that we say on another day. But I remember 30 said, What do you want out of life, I said, I want three things, right? To be financially independent. By the time I'm 50, to be completely debt free by the time I'm 50. And to make sure that I can give my two children a great education and a great start in life. Yeah, and I did achieve all three of those. And I can still remember, when I paid the mortgage off, it's not a it's not a logical thing. It's an emotional thing. Yeah, is that you can't drive it around, can you I mortgage for right now, I'm telling you, I have a piece in me, I have an absolute piece in me as a person, I don't care what anything happens in the world, I got no payments. And there's something liberating about that. So so I can see why you would start picking it up from your dad. So you had that in you as a young man that your dad sort of expressed that to you as a really important thing to do. Right to get mortgage free. Okay, so then you you did the supermarket job, you moved on from the pound the pound, or you got your Mac took you went off to uni? How did you survive going through uni financially because some people come out as complete and utter wreck?

18:28
Yeah, so I was quite lucky in the sense that because I had been working, and I had some money saved up. And obviously, with the maintenance grant I got, I was essentially able to sustain myself. So I should say, by when I was 18. By this point, I hadn't really read any personal finance books, and I wasn't invested in

18:47
reasonable shape. Right. So you avoided a little bit of savings. Yeah,

18:52
I didn't have any debt. I didn't save some money. living within my means, but having a good time last being at uni, is really the best way for somebody else.

19:00
Yeah. So you weren't a complete what I call a complete learning geek. You were you were out there making friends as we call it. Okay.

19:07
Yeah.

19:08
So when did the Epiphany When did you start learning about personal finance? What What was it? Was it just you a hunger for information? Or did someone give you the book?

19:18
So I've always been interested in like money in the stock market, you know, people would sort of chat about it randomly. You know, this stocks gone up by this amount, whatever. He took much notice of it. But it was then in sixth form. When I first studied economics, when I was 16, was probably when I first became interested with essentially the economy and how the world works and money. And then I ended up studying at a university. So then it sort of grew through that. And I think it was in my second year of university was I started reading. So like, well, we got, we got given reading, of course, I started reading my own, like personal finance or investing related books. I also watched a lot of YouTube videos from my personal finance bloggers, that sort of thing. And then yeah, probably the Epiphany was when I read Rich Dad Poor that I think, at the end of my second year of uni, and that's when it sort of started kicking into gear like your assets need to get cash flow. So what was

20:11
the big I was just to say, what is the main message you got from that book? Because I've read it several times, as you'd expect, yeah, the

20:17
main message, I'd say, it's probably the simplest message, which is just essentially invest in assets and liabilities. If you look at the general population, and like the high levels of consumer debt, and people in this country, every few years, they get a bigger house, they get a bigger car, they got a nicer holiday, than not adhering to literally the simplest message of the book is to invest in assets, and then all them liabilities I've just mentioned one day, then assets can pay for them liabilities, worry about them, probably. And that's why then soon after that, I started investing to then try and start the process myself.

20:54
Can't man. So you came out of uni in reasonable shape? Would you say? Did you have an overdraft? Because a lot of people it's normalized having an overdraft. The banks just want you to have it right, because it's free. I did

21:05
have an overdraft set up. But I've actually never been into overdraft once

21:09
you have a facility but you never used it.

21:11
Yeah, yeah. But no, I came out. Well, I should say, actually, as well, I did a placement yet, in between my second and third year of uni. So I was working for a year in London. So I essentially went into first year being a rich student because I've been working. So I'd say pretty well, then the second year, I probably was in decent shape. And then going into third year, because I had a few 1000 pounds saved up from work in good shape as far as being a student.

21:39
So just before we move on from that, what would you say is the ultimate way of coming out of uni with the minimum amount of financial baggage what what would be your sort of key takeaways on that.

21:51
So with uni, The difficult thing is that it can be difficult to get a job. So you either have a job when I was at uni, although I did although I did do a placement year, but it can be difficult to have a steady stream of income and the maintenance loans or grants that you get in bulk normally two or three times a year. So I would say that the best thing is yourself budget, even though they may not be glamorous or fashionable, even just to get a spreadsheet going that you know you're gonna receive 1200 pounds in October, that's gonna last you for Christmas. And you need to have some sort of budget. So you're not just gonna blow that in the in freshers week. And if you don't have any money left, and if you can get a job, particularly if you do maybe a course with less contact hours. And if you get a job even working 10 hours a week, that can get you a couple 100 pound a month, which you just helped facilitate, you know, you enjoying your time because there's also a trade off where you obviously want to not get into debt, and be like struggling but then you also want to have fun because you're still young, you know, the best years of your life people say so you've got to try and find that good. middle ground.

22:57
Yeah, I see. Okay, so I have a budget and trying to just eke out the Maintenance Loan. Just don't blow it on the first. Yeah, yeah. Okay. It's very good thing. And my daughter's just graduated. And she runs all my social media and does all my platforms and all my digital stuff. And she never ever used her overdraft. She had a budget. She, you know, she had the Maintenance Loan as it is now. And she, yes, she never had a job. Because you just want to focus on the studies. And but she she just said some of her friends. I mean, love them, love them to death. But some of them would sit there and say, I don't understand where all this money's gone. You know why I've got three grand overdraft they just happened to them. Right. So it's just quite, it's good to be weird. Actually.

23:39
I can resonate with that. Because I've one friend who just never seem to have any money, no matter what he was, like. Two weeks later, he's got no money.

23:51
or money. Yeah. Okay, so what happened? So what was the degree you did? By the way?

23:58
Economics.

23:59
Oh economics? Okay, where did you do that leeds did you say.

24:02
Loughborough

24:03
own left brown army that. So economics and PE they're they're big things. There are a lot of people do physical education.

24:09
Yeah, that the biggest thing is the sport, obviously. And then

24:12
the other thing is they call it that night. Yes.

24:15
And then the other big thing is probably engineering.

24:17
Yeah, good. Yeah. Good. So you left there. What did you then do? Did you take the time out? Or did you go straight into the employment market?

24:25
So I did a placement here. And then I managed to get a job from that placement as well went back straight. So I graduated in the July of last year, and had a few months off and then started last September. So I've now been, I guess, in full time work for just over a year. And what do you do now? Then?

24:43
What was your role?

24:44
And I'm an accountant.

24:47
Yeah, but you seem you seem quite sort of outgoing. And

24:52
that's part of the job. You gotta be friendly. Yeah, so I'm currently essentially studying for The ACA exams, so the chart accountancy exams, I've done nine of them are not six left. So hopefully by this time next year, I'll be a chartered accountant and then hop into the next move from there.

25:13
Yeah, well, here's the thing. And it's really important, I think, to just share this with people, particularly our younger listeners, that your degree doesn't have to define where you go. I mean, there's lots of people who've gone on to do completely different things. But you could do anything with that, couldn't you?

25:26
Yeah. So I mean, what I would say the first thing and before I mentioned that is that I know, nowadays, particularly other big accounting firms, you haven't necessarily got to have an accounting background or degree to join. So I know I'd economics so it's the same sort of round. There are grads who joined who did our history sciences, so many humanities? Yeah, yeah. So actually, I guess work at firm nowadays, it's not as strict, you have to be x y, Zed. But yeah, the good thing is, the good thing is that I'm learning by doing the exams. I'm learning a lot about accounting, tax, financial statements. So I reckon, although I probably could go on to maybe do a range of things, I probably would stay in that sort of realm of maybe an investment analysis or fund managers, something like that. That's one thing that somebody will say in the finance realm, but Yeah, you are right, then I think once you get a professional qualification, like when you've got not necessarily just the Chartered Accountant, but financial advisor, insurance, banking, whatever it is, that's then like, you're sort of backbone. So that's always like, the sort of safety net where you can try new things and then it doesn't work out or you don't like job where you adjust the council's you can go back and do what you were doing anyway.

26:41
But it's a bit like I'm having Hospital in my garden at the moment, right? It sounds grand, but it's a bit of a nightmare, but it's good fun. There's one guy there, who who, who trained as a bricklayer, and he's a brilliant bricklayer. He's a qualified, you know, you can actually drive all the diggers, including the massive, enormous things, he can plaster, he can do a little bit of ways. He said he can do some joinery work, but not to the top, no cabinet level making. But the point is, he's never ever, ever, ever been without work ever in 20 years. Because he's flexible. He's got different scales, and what he originally trained for wasn't his own thing. But he can always fall back on that, and he can do it any time. So I think you're right, that that having a basis a skill is very important. PwC in fact, is is has got the largest I think, number of apprenticeship professional apprenticeships, or you know what you can become a chartered accountant with them through the apprenticeship route rather than degree route, I think, than any farm. So so things are changing, you don't have to be defined by your qualification. So let's just move on to what you've learned about money so far from your studies, because I know you're a young man, you starting out You sound to me, like you're doing all the right things. But what is it? I'd like to hear in your own language, what you've learned about, you know, the role of money in people's lives and how to make sure it's a force for good. And it helps, you know, hinders you. So what have you learned so far, just in a simple summary, really invest?

28:03
I said, I remember reading this book A while ago, and it said that the free questions they ask these people, what makes you most happy? What makes you most unhappy? And what worries you the most, and all of the top answers with money. And I feel like people I mentioned earlier on that also like a saver. My parents are Savers, I think the biggest thing I've learned is that you need to invest as early as possible. Because essentially, by investing today, and giving up some of your wealth and money today, and putting it to work, you're then essentially buying back future time, and freedom that you can have in the future. So I would just say, Yeah, I can't actually overstate that enough, just need to invest as early and as soon as possible, and really as much as possible. And then you can enjoy the fruits of your labor further down the line.

28:48
Yeah. So when it comes to thinking about investing, it's not just about investing in the stock market, is it? It's about investing in yourself, which you're doing at the moment. So what what are your thoughts on that and and what you share with your followers?

29:03
Yeah, so I think investing in yourself at any age, really, but especially if you're younger, is probably the best way you can spend your money. So I would first of all, say when it comes to investing in yourself, people automatically think of investing money. So buying a really expensive course or something like that. It's not necessarily money, you can also invest your time and energy. So being a student, for example, you haven't got any money, but you've got so much time, you can take a course on YouTube to learn how to code, you can go to networking events and meet new people who are like minded. So it's not necessarily just about investing money into expensive courses. You can also invest your time and energy, but I would say the simplest and probably best thing you can do is just buy a few books, go on Amazon for about 510 pound a book, get a few books, do a bit of reading around something you're interested in, hasn't necessarily and and if you're interested in geography, history, Architecture, whatever it is, and then that lens will give you a good grounding. And what you'll discover is you'll then know what you enjoy more. And then you can get more niche and specific as you, I guess, find out what your passion is.

30:11
It's an interesting point, that there are no leaders who are not readers. And this thing about you can only do so much. I mean, yes, I mean, I've got a regime, I read one nonfiction book a week, minimum, I watch two or three TED talks a week minimum. And I'm always reading one or two long form, and two or three short form blogs from quality writers and people are right. And the problem I think a lot of people have is that whilst we can make money or dealing with money easier, we can't make it easy. You have to put some time and some effort into it. If you're spending more time grazing over social media rubbish and crap that doesn't serve any purpose. It's all about consumption, then don't be surprised if you don't understand and you don't have the wherewithal. So what about developing good habits, routines and behaviors? What's your thoughts on that?

31:01
focus on one thing at a time, I feel like people, you know, they say like, from Monday, I'm going to go to the gym, drink four liters of water. Like, just focus on doing

31:13
a marathon. Yeah.

31:15
The from Monday, or from the first day of the month, or the first day of the year, just from today, just start doing something that is going to benefit you in the future. So whenever it says, well just start off, don't put too much pressure on ourselves. So just say, you know, you're a bit unfit. You're just like going to the gym. Don't go to the gym every single day for a week, because you're going to lose motivation, you're going to start by going two or three times a week. And then that habit over time, you know, another good one is obviously one of them tons of money. One great one is it just say when you get paid on the day, you get paid, just transfer even 50 pounds to a separate bank account and start saving?

31:53
Yeah, that's a good one. Well, here's the here's the thing. I mean, if you if you people identify their behaviors with who they are, right, so some people say, I'm not good with money. Now, what they're saying is, I haven't learned the right mechanisms, I haven't created the right environment, I'm in quite the right routines, and I haven't created the right focus, to do the right things. That's what they're saying, because they label their actions as if that's who they are good or bad. So I agree with you if you start if you an automate. So if it's 20 quid a month, just start, you know, I would rather you start saving 20 quid a month into account you just can't get your hands on. And just forget it. Because it's not painful. It's simple. Same as if you're going to read about money, right? Only you're only allowed to read three pages. You say to yourself, you can only read three pages. It doesn't sound Oh, three pages can't know. But you know, what happens before you know it? eight pages?

32:44
Yeah, yeah.

32:45
Yes, budget. So number one on the budget, if you're trying to work out where your money's going, don't get auto, a big deal. Just say all you've got to do. All you've got to do is list out your core direct debits just do that. Why don't worry about the whole budget, just just do that. But then when you've done that, another day, you can say, I'm gonna look at last month's what I spent on shopping. Just do that, you know, so it's just small bit. Over about three weeks, you've built your little historic budget. Yeah.

33:11
Yeah. And I was gonna say, actually, you just briefly touched on it. But I think particularly with money, mindset, and emotion is such a big event. And I mentioned earlier on, you know, mortgage, it's an emotional thing. Generally, if you talk about money, you normally get a reaction out, people are often bad, that had a bad experience. But it's such a thing people need to understand, you know, if you have got, like, bad attachments to money, that that's not a bad thing at all, the first thing is to recognize that, and then you need to change your mindset. So rather than saying, you know, I can't say think like, how can I say, pound a month, as you're saying, rather than I don't understand how to invest? Now, what are you doing to learn how to understand, just watch 120 minute YouTube video a week, and then over time you start, then your mindset sort of changes from, I guess, thinking negatively to thinking positively when it comes to money? Like, yeah, having a positive thinking. mindset is really important.

34:08
There's two angles to it. Ryan, which I'd appreciate your your perspective and thoughts on is there is the idea of mindset in terms of money, abundance, versus money scarcity, that's a real big one. So if you think money is scarce, it won't come to you. It doesn't want to hang out with people who don't like it right? When I say don't like you, you know, I'm open to it. Whereas abundance, there's plenty of money out there. And if you create value in the world, you'll it will come to you, right. But equally, if it comes to you, and you don't you don't treat it right. It's a bit like a boyfriend or girlfriend now going to hang out. Right. It's not gonna hang about. Yeah. So I just wonder what your thoughts are just and there's another angle. I'll come back to get your thoughts on but on that whole abundancy abundance versus scarcity issue?

34:49
Yeah, I do. I support that view. tonicity. I remember there wasn't a book I read a few years ago saying essentially there's it's trillions of dollars of transactions every single day. If you can just create a service or product or something that delivers value, you'll have them participate in that flow of money. I think it's probably it might seem far fetched, I think starting out, you know that as money's flowing, there's loads of it around, whereas I'm just working a nine to five, and I've got to pay tax and National Insurance and rent. But then I think once you actually just start looking at your money, you know, get the budgets set up, how can I save and invest, then you go on and start a side hustle or something on the side. And I think that's probably a big one, actually, even it's just behind, you know, just sending some items in your loft, buying some items and selling them on for more, you then really start to discover that you can make money in so many ways. And the more you do, and the more value as you said you provide, the more that will flow to you. And it's sort of like a snowball effect.

35:52
That's right. So just thinking about other aspects of people's sort of money journey. You mentioned the word attachment. Now attachment in Buddhism. So I've studied all the different disciplines, I mean, I'm an atheist, just get that one out there. But I love looking at all of the different religions, all the different thought processes and all the different philosophies. And Buddhism really says a lot of pain most as humans are trying to avoid pain and gain pleasure, right? And, and the pain comes from attachment to either the need to be loved, the need to be wanted, and the need to be connected and be part of something and that often drives spending decisions. So the swanky car on finance, you can't really afford but you're not putting 15% of your income into your pension. But you've got a car or 500 pound a month, because you think it makes you look cool, right? Yeah, or the exotic holiday you're posting on Instagram, because you, you know, you think oh humblebrag oh, I wish you're all here. I'm on the beach in Bali, you know what I mean? with gorgeous boyfriend or girlfriend on I live in a perfect life. That is a desperate need for acceptance, love and attachment. Right. So if you have voids, as opposed to values that will drive your spending, just want to what your thoughts are on that whole spending equation. So we've dealt with the income side the spending equation, particularly amongst young people in your age group, and how they're thinking about it, because they're some of them have got a victim mentality who was terrible. And others think well, hang on, there's opportunity around me. Yeah. But every every generations have challenges every every generation has thinks they're in uniquely difficult times. So I'm just wondering what you're thinking about that the the role of social media appears, marketing on people's spending decisions and how it keeps them poor.

37:36
No, I completely agree with what you're saying. I think social media particularly has driven this whole era of society where people are more interested in looking rich and looking happy, and looking wealthy than actually just being happy. And you know, spending money on things that they enjoy. So as you were saying, this whole concept of lifestyle inflation, which has been around for a while, but it's probably more elevated now of consumer items, like you know, going on like big, expensive holidays, buying fancy cars, having like the nicest designer clothes, where people are getting into these huge amounts of debt and not really actually that they're buying a Gucci t shirt for 500 pounds, just because they're gonna post this

38:19
cheap t shirt for 500 quid.

38:21
I think like Gucci them sort of like supreme them sort of brand for 100 pounds for a teacher

38:28
was paying a lot when I paid seven quid for this.

38:35
I think it's just, I think society really doesn't help. Sorry, social media really doesn't help out particularly a lot of these, like vloggers. And bloggers, particularly on YouTube as well. But I live in LA or Hollywood that, you know, wearing 1000s of pounds worth of jewelry and T shirts and trainers and stuff drives this perception that in order to be successful, you need to then have these things by just by just take a step back and think about it logically. If you get a T shirt from h&m for four pounds, or a Gucci t shirt, 500 pounds, what effect does that actually have on you, you're only really buy an expensive t shirt to try and look cool and impress other people. Whereas the people that actually care about you and like their few don't really care what t shirt you wear, they want you to be happy. So I think society drives and social media drives this perception that you need to have materialistic things to be successful, when in fact, it's actually the opposite. I heard there's a really good quote the other day where a comment what context he was in, but there was a billionaire who was given a big talk or something. And then on the side, there's sort of a guy who's quite wealthy. He's done well for himself. And then someone comes up to him and says, Don't you wish he was him? You know, the billionaire. And then the guy goes to him, and I don't because I have something Then he will never have enough. People always want more and more. were blessed. You have when you have enough you feel a lot happier.

40:10
Yeah, there's a great Seneca quote, which I put on Instagram the other day, or if my daughter did, about, you know, you ask how much is enough? And you know, and it's not having everything you want, it's wanting what you have. Yeah, no. But there's nothing wrong with buying nice things I've written in my blog, there's nothing wrong with having nice things if that really if you're if you're intentional, and if you aren't in debt. And if you've got savings on my website, you go to the money, milestones, the money milestones, you must do 124 in order once you don't want to fall in order, you can then go 5678, concurrently, there's nothing complicated about it,

40:41
you know, if you are generally buying something, because you know, maybe you love cars, and you love this really expensive car, then that's obviously fine having that goal, but it's when you're buying something, and deep down, we're trying to impress other people trying to get people.

40:58
That's right, it's buying it for the right reasons. And when you can afford it not buying for the wrong reasons, or when you can't afford it either way. Yeah. So before we finish up, give us a few insights as to you post lots on Instagram, you got the world and it's dog following you. Right? from nowhere, so well done. What are you? What are you? What perspectives feedback? Could you give us about the kind of interactions that people seem to like about your stuff? What is it they like about it? What what kind of material? Is it that you're getting? You're getting good engagement with just so we get a feel for what in messages people because we know there is an appetite for people to want to be better with money, but they're embarrassed to admit it right?

41:40
I actually find that the simpler and more basic content does better. So just simple. When it comes to investing, just simple things, such as using index fund, what is an index fund, you know, paying down debt, do you pay it, but the avalanche method or the snowball method,

41:59
snowball snowball been proven through all research to be the most single most effective way of repaying non mortgage debt period

42:07
gives us some numbers. And then like this is the actual like more basic, I do some more, I guess, more detailed posts. But I find that the more even things such as you know, stocks and shares ICER, you get 20,000 pounds allowance, you can this platform has a 0% platform fee to use them, I find them all simpler, straight to the point. beginner friendly content does better, because it's important. Even if you are like an expert, or you're advanced, it's important to first know the basics. And I feel like even though we both produce, you know, finance content, so we still have some background knowledge, a lot of people don't like if I mentioned some of this stuff to my mom, she has no idea what I'm talking about. And so the average person doesn't still know, the beginner friendly stuff. So

42:51
it's good to reiterate that in a simple way. And also, Ryan, I would have suspected most of your own lot of your followers. Do you suspect to younger people? Or is it a real range?

43:02
Yeah, I haven't. I think my demographic is Yeah, mainly about 18 to 30. I've got a few older followers, but yeah, most people following you.

I think most people I do converse with anyone listening, you know, you can always message me on Instagram, I'll always reply, but most people I do converse with are as well in their, you know, late teens. 20s. So

43:30
and to what extent do you think that one of the big problems is not just the simply fine of the message and deed organization? And making? Yes, like you say, make it simple. But to what extent do you need to overcome people's innate fear of money because they feel either being ridiculed or vulnerable? Or they feel stupid, that they should know more? Or that or they do the ostrich thing? You know, put my head in the sand because it's too painful? To what extent do you think you need to overcome that? And how are you doing that for your content?

44:00
You do definitely need to overcome that because how much you read or learn, or even if, you know, you make your own finance page, you're the one that's in control of your money. And you need to make the right decisions with your money and how much you learn and how much you think no, you need to actually be taking the right action with your money and overcoming that fear is difficult. Have you know if you've maybe had a bad experience with you know, a credit card in the past and you've got into debt, and now you hate credit cards, I think like anything in life, you just got face to just accept that, okay, you go into high interest debt, credit cards aren't necessarily bad. You just messed up in that time, but then moving forward, you know that and you're gonna learn from that. So that's why I would say in terms of facing the fear and it was everything you are sorry, Jason.

44:47
I was saying facing the fear but also the fear that people are going to feel you know that it's not for them or you know, the jargon overwhelms and although they put their head in the sand the ostrich bit, you know, I'm not just not going to deal with it.

45:00
I would say the best thing is you just need to ask questions, even if it is jargon free. And you still don't understand it, just, you know, especially like the UK finance community, that mean you are involved in everyone is nice. Everyone wants to help out. If someone sends you a message saying, What's an ICER? It's one of the most basic questions you can ask. But I'm still gonna record a voice note and explain to you the different types of biases, how much you can invest. So the best thing is just, if you have a question, ask, I would also say, if you know, have someone in your life, or you know, someone who's actually interested in money, or like, maybe they've got their own property, whatever it is, just speak to them about it. Because you what you'll find is I open up to people, they might know things that you don't know, and you can just learn a lot more in that sort of comfortable environment.

45:49
Mm hmm. Well, I mean, Ryan, you've been, it's been great talking to you. I know you're only in the beginning of your journey, but I wanted to get you on because on a refreshing take on it, you're one of the few sort of UK based personal finance kind of new media guys and girls. So money made simple, that's his Instagram handle, handle, Check. Check him out, Ryan, King, you're a superstar really appreciate being on the show. And I'll be watching you with great interest, keep doing the good work. Jason.

What a nice guy. Quite a few really interesting insights there for someone so young, clearly, that guy is going to be a rock star in the future. But a couple of interesting points there, he learned very early on Disney that you must buy assets, not liabilities, because then the assets can fund your lifestyle liabilities, you know, forever. So that was good. He set up a spending budget, didn't he when he was at uni to eke out the grants and the Maintenance Loan. So that was an interesting one. And he just made the point didn't need it. Yes, it's important to invest in yourself before you worry about investing in investments, you know, like stock markets, etc. But he said it's not just investing money, it's also the time, the effort, the energy, networking, all those things that isn't just about spending money, and he made that point didn't need that. You got to change your mindset from not I can't save or I can't invest or I can't earn two, how can I such a great reframing? How can I because that's about finding the answer finding the solution. And he made that lovely point didn't need it. You know, when you're looking at Instagram, or you're looking at other social media and you see all these people, you know, having the so called perfect life, and he said don't get sucked into spending money because the people who matter don't really care what you spend or what you've got. He love you for who you are. So what a great thing for him to end on there. Really good episode. So check him out. Really nice guy. Pretty good insights. And if you've got someone young in your life, give them just listen to this episode because Ryan's only about 23. But for someone so young, he's got a lot of a lot of wisdom. And hopefully a young person in your life can relate to him perhaps more than they can relate to somebody. So hope you enjoyed that. See you next time.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai