58. Sam Sloma Picks Up The Financial Ball

This week I speak to Sam Sloma, Chartered Financial Planner and Managing Director at Engage Financial Services.

After a career as a professional footballer, Sam retired at 26 and set his sights on the next chapter of his life. 

Six years into his career change, Sam became a Chartered Financial Planner and went on to set up Engage Financial Services in 2017.

Sam is a wonderfully warm and "down to earth" guy. His openness makes this money story a great listen.

Episode Transcript

Jason Butler 0:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less, and enjoy life more. Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down, as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Hello, Jason here. And thanks for joining me on another edition of the Real Money Stories podcast. Before we get into the show, this just give you a quick tour of various things I've been getting involved in and some thoughts and ideas that might help you in your money journey. Well, my latest FT article - Are you a good financial role model? - that seems to have gone down quite well. In fact, I always like looking at the reader comments on the Online Edition. And there are 20 plus comments there. And it seems to range from the kind of guy I really get this, I think this is a good idea to other people being quite cynical about the idea of not just sharing your, your wealth during your lifetime or on death, but also the stories and the values that underpin it. And it seems to be very emotive, it seems to be a very, very emotive subject. So I love that I love to get people thinking, talking. They don't have to agree with me. But it also got me thinking about my late grandfather and the impact he had on me, because my late grandfather, who's my late father's father, he had a go at several businesses and all of them failed. I mean, by the time I was little, he still lived in a nice sort of semi detached house in a suburb of southeast London. But he wasn't really a rich man. And but the stories of him starting different businesses, a bed manufacturing business, a lawnmower repair, business, man, everything he seemed to do seem to fail. But see, for me what, what I learned from that role model of him was, it's really important to work hard. It's important to be persistent. It's also important to be sort of resilient, you know, adaptable, it didn't seem to worry him that he failed, and I love that about him. My own father wasn't very - how can put it - wasn't a great role model with money, and seem to be cynical about everything in life. So from my point of view, my grandfather was a great role model for me financially and in life, even though he wasn't, you know, from the outward side of things, a real raving success. So we can all be role models for people in different ways. But also, if we if we need a role model, let's look for someone whose values that we we can really resonate with. So check that one out. It's called, are you a good financial role model, and that's on ft.com.

So, last week, I did my Instagram Live, it was all about budgeting. Now, I don't really like that word budgeting. And in fact, that was last week's blog about that. And I, I really was talking about smart spending. And it was really interesting. I'm on the Instagram Live out, you know, with Instagram Live, you get immediate response from people. And it seemed to be that the the attendees were split between sort of the diehards, who'd learned the hard way how to get control of their spending, you know, to others, that were still working progress to others, where it was a painful thing to think about. And in fact, last week, I also did a webinar for a major UK supermarket for their staff. And one of the questions I asked was, how would you describe how you get hold of how you control your day to day spending? And one of the options from you know, real detail budget and really follow it rigidly all the way down to have no budget and no clue. And it was it was about 31% of attendees. And it was a lot of people on that webinar said that they have no budget, no plan and no clue. So I suppose the takeaway from that is, look, you're not alone, if you aren't what I call perfect or, or haven't made great progress in this area, but you really got to get control of your spending, because it doesn't matter how much you earn. If you can't control your spending, or it's not going in the areas that are serving you well, then you're never going to get ahead and never going to feel comfortable, secure and on top of your money.

So that was interesting, that one so the big takeaway there is always about getting your truth. And that leads me nicely on to this week's blog, and also my Instagram Live because it's all about money and relationships. And it's really was inspired by an email I received from one of my followers and readers about a disconnect between her and her husband in relation to their spending while they were spending our money on and what the decisions are we're making about money and it really got me thinking because I have written about this before. And I've shared this in lives before live events. But unless you can get on the same page with people that really matter to you, and it's not just someone you're married to, or you're living with, but it also can be family, and it can be friends, if you don't get a, if you don't got clear clarity and good communication about money, then it can cause problems. And also, I did my Instagram Live on that as well. So check that out on my story and see what the see what the audience were set had to say about this whole issue because you'll find it's a real can of worms but but good fun, really good fun, enjoyed that. So check the blog out at jason-butler.com on my blog page, and check out my Instagram @jbthewealthman. And check my story. And you'll see that live and previous lifestyle. And the fun thing I just want to touch on with some new research out from nest. nest is the government sort of agency that deals with the default workplace pension. And they do quite a lot of research. What they found was that for people who, for people who environmental, social governance, you know what we call responsible investing, where that was a thing that mattered to them, the more they thought about that, and the more they focused on that in relation to their pension, the more likely they were to be engaged with their pension, which means putting more in taking more active decisions about the investing strategy. So So really, I think the takeaway from that is whether you're interested in ESG, or responsible investing or not, even if you haven't got lots of investments, and you're still say getting rid of debt, or building up savings or trying to get on the housing market, you will still have some investments in your pension. And it's really important to remember that it's a resource. So whether you're into responsible investing or not actually taking some time out to actually look at where your money's invested in your pension, which is probably your biggest investment asset outside of your home, or perhaps a car really worth looking at that. Because if it's not invested in a decent fund, or it's an inexpensive fund, or is some harebrained sort of single company, single country thing or whatever, you know, really look at that. And that's your starting point, because that's your money that you've saved, and the government contribution and your employer contribution. So, so check that one out really, really worth looking at that. And look, it's only what first time I record this, it's five weeks away from Christmas. Now, I know it feels lots of people who dread and other people can't wait for it with the year that we've had, there's always the tendency to want to sort of have a big blowout before the end of the year. You know, what the heck is the concept, you know, it can't get any worse, let's let's have a big finish to the year. But look, it's very easy to overspend in the lead up to the festive and through the festive season. But I want to make sure that you don't go off track and have a financial headache in the new year. So what we've created is a one page a downloadable PDF tool at jason-butler.com/tools, which is your Christmas gift planner summary. So you can download that. And it really can help you just think about who you've got to get stuff for how much you're going to spend so that you can be a bit more intentional, it's a bit of fun, but it's a one pager might just help you get a bit more organized, or share it with someone who you think might have a tendency to get a bit carried away. And here's another thing, what you can do is if you want to minimize the amount of spend on Christmas presents this year, if your situation is a little bit precarious, or you're a bit worried about the future, it's just to agree with friends, perhaps you you only buy one present for a group of friends, like a secret santa type thing, you know, or you just put your names in the hat and you buy one prison for one person rather than, you know, lots of prisons for different people that might put you under financial strain. So that's it. Hope that all helps you. Let me know if there's anything I can do to help you in any way at all. I'm always happy to help. Always happy to hear your questions. And as you'll see from this week's blog, I do eventually get around to writing about them when the time is right, so that we can share wisdom and ideas very widely. So look. Without further ado, let's get into this week's guest interview with Sam Sloma.

Hello there and thanks for joining me on another episode of Real Money Stories. I'm your host Jason Butler. And this week I am joined by a lovely fella. He's a really interesting chat or I just said that but all my guests but yeah, he is an interesting guy and I know you're going to love hearing his story is Mr. Sam Sloma. Hi, Sam.

Sam Sloma 9:33
Hi Jason. How you doing.

Jason Butler 9:35
Yeah, good. Before we get into the backstory, do you want to just tell everyone what you actually do for a day job or you know, keep yourself busy during the day?

Sam Sloma 9:43
Sure. So I'm a Chartered Financial Planner, I run a business called Engaged financial services. We look after mainly sportsmen so professional footballers in the main and young entrepreneurs business owners so not the normal clientele of financial services, we sort of look after people who are building wealth and accumulating savings from wealth and trying to grow to, that's what we do for the day.

Jason Butler 10:08
And I was keen to get you on because I know that you do have an unusual approach to how you work with people as well, and how you charge them and stuff. And that ability to work with people who are converting their human capital, you know, their future, their ability to earn income, and turn it into financial assets, but also a life of meaning, I know is something that you you feel very strongly about. So we'll get into that. So, yeah, this go back to, you know, your sort of the early days. You know, baby Sam, what was the first sort of money, thoughts and financial thoughts you had and experiences?

Sam Sloma 10:42
You know, it's interesting, I listened to a couple of your pods in preparation for this. And trying to think back about money stories for me, I don't, I don't have masses, I think that when I think back, I had a very happy childhood. All I can think about is having a lot of time playing football. Every summer holiday, every break was always at football camps, and just doing football stuff. I think the earliest memory I have of money or thinking something about money was we had a lot of holidays, my parents lived to go away, they used to love my dad worked really hard. My mom actually worked for my dad. And they worked really hard, because they wanted to go away a lot. And so we spent a lot of time on holiday. And I really thought when I got to come to school that not everyone went away, went away all the time. And then I realized that, you know, we were quite fortunate we lived in a nice house. And it was that's the only time really I look back and think about anything. Money related. We didn't discuss it. And it wasn't sort of something we'll set on the table one spoke about or that there was not really any teachings of money. More that you know, we were comfortable. dad worked hard mom work done. And we were happy. And that's really I don't have masses of money memories from from growing up.

Jason Butler 12:05
Can you remember? You know, sort of things you're saying that your mom and dad may have said, relating to money. So give an example. My mom used to say go money doesn't grow on trees? Or do you think I made her money? So she created this scarcity mindset around money for me? She said it all the time all the time. So I'm just wondering whether it's positive or negative, just wondering if those are those early beliefs? Where did they come from? And can you remember them from Yeah, I think parents then

Sam Sloma 12:28
very much money didn't grow on trees. Also, she never wanted to buy us things that we grew out of. So I was wanting the latest football boots, I always remember seeing it, that's predators that just come out. And sort of half driving my mom mad to get them. But she, she didn't want to buy us, you know, particular brand names just because we were going to grow out of them quite quickly. And I remember thinking, Oh, this is frustrating. But again, I don't really think matters of it. I just remember trying to drive my mom mad to get some stuff. And she she was just banging me away. As a child, I was a little bit spoiled is probably the word the right word. Although I grabbed that in later years. But I yeah, I was a bit of a nag and trying to get what I wanted. Yeah, that was definitely on the agenda was me drive my mom mad. She'll tell you to this day. That is a bit of a pain in the back. Yeah.

Jason Butler 13:20
She's lucky that she had football because she could just drop me places. And I'd go and play. I think if I spent too much time with her it would have it would have fractured our relationship. And your mom and dad were in business, right? They ran their own business or they work for themselves. So did that have an impact? Did you sort of Were you aware that your mum and dad sort of did work and they earn money as opposed to getting paid by someone else for their time?

Sam Sloma 13:43
Not until not until I was a bit older. So I remember, we used to go to my dad's office, he worked around the corner from us. After school, we'd pop down there. But he would go he would work quite long hours. He'd also go in Saturday and Sunday. And we'd often go with him. He'd want to pick up the post or he'd want to do some drawings or you know, it was an engineer. By again, it was just natural. It wasn't there wasn't anything I I don't remember Be conscious about any of that until I was a bit older and starting to think about you know what's going on in the world and how other people live and yeah, I don't I don't remember having conscious thoughts about any of it, which is strange. Now, I'm a given the job I do, but also that I talk about this stuff with other people but never really massively considered it for myself. Hmm. And I'm just thinking as you were at school.

Jason Butler 14:35
It's interesting to explore this whole issue of identity status of wanting to be connected with people friendships, which is a difficult thing that teenagers go through certainly, to what extent did you see that there was an issue, you know, the whole brand thing, consumerism wanting to be accepted the role of money and things? Was that very prevalent for you when you were growing up? Because it is for some young people? Yeah, I

Sam Sloma 14:59
think I think things were, I don't think money was money. I don't remember anything really being massively money related. I remember it being about Yeah, we wanted nice things. Definitely all football related.

Jason Butler 15:14
That is money, isn't it? I mean, I don't necessarily mean about the pound shillings and pence. But that is money, right? Things are money because you need money to buy things. Just manifestation was different, right?

Sam Sloma 15:24
Not that I just I didn't relate the two. So I didn't think if I want things, it's going to cost money. And where does that money come from? mom used to say, you know, like I said, money doesn't grow on trees. Why? I was never really conscious about it. I just didn't give it a lot of thought. I just thought, you know, we get stuff. And that's where stuff comes from. And I didn't really think much of it. I was never, we like I said, we never really spoke about it. It was not on the site, we chat about it around the dinner table. I'm the youngest of three, I had two older sisters growing up. And yeah, we were big family spent a lot of time with my cousins. And like I said, I remember getting to secondary school and understanding that not everyone went on holidays, and that we lived in a nice house. And that some of my friends, you know, we wanted to go away. And we'd often take few friends away with my family, they'd come away with us. But again, I didn't really relate to it money wise, but looking back, there were some some you know, we were we were comfortable. And it was, it was a really happy upbringing. I think one of the interesting things that we'll go into at some point was I always thought, you know, again, when I got older and started to understand how much these costs for taking a family of five away, I was thought we must have we must have done well mamas, I must have done well. But my mom tells me since that they didn't, and they just spent all the money that they had on holidays to go away. And they didn't put any savings away, they didn't have any money behind them. They just used to earn and spend. And that's how they lived, which was interesting. Because it my perception of them when I was growing up is different to the reality. And again, this is we'll talk about mostly stuff later, but my dad passed away when he was 4647. God. And yeah, I might, you know, my mom is very pleased that they did spend all the money on holidays, and they did have all the memories, and they did all those things. And that influences my thoughts now about how I live, and also how I advise because, you know, having going through an experience where someone passes away, you do realize that that time is short, you do realize that things can change. And unfortunately, people can die. So you you have I still take everything with a with that in the back of my mind as a frame to think, yes, having savings and building and building building is amazing. But you've got to live, you have to enjoy your life. Because if something changes, having loads of money in the bank that you know, a bit of a waste of time. And so it's that that is that the major defining moment of my childhood. And sort of there's two periods before that. And there's after that, and you know, things changed after that.

Jason Butler 17:56
I can imagine how that would color your thoughts. So So after the event, you realize that your mom and dad were living for the moment the money came in, they spent it on nice things, or experiences, holidays, etc. And then the football boots that obviously were an investment not a luxury, obviously, something like that. And then you had that traumatic How old were you when your your father passed away?

Sam Sloma 18:16
I was 15 just don't 15 or four or five days before

Jason Butler 18:20
Christmas? That's a really tricky time. Right to for anyone to have a trauma. So. So you at that stage, obviously, you know must be really difficult for the whole family. But then did you at that stage had you by then were you on sort of like the pocket money thing and allowance? Or were you doing a part time job? Or were you earning a little bit for your extras? Or what was just you know, round about that time?

Sam Sloma 18:44
Yeah, so I was work, I used to work. There was a hardware store at the end of our road. I used to work Saturdays and some evenings earning some pocket money to earn some money. We obviously started to go out and not really not day 15 but you are going out with friends and going into town and stuff like that. And yeah, there was there was small pocket money. I after that, so I left school at 16 and went to football, which we'll talk about buy started money from 16. So at that stage when I started to have, you know, money coming in and being able to understand budgeting and what we had, and also we the club paid my mom's rent because I wasn't because I was living at home. And also there's loads of things around that time. So my mom moved, she bought a smaller house. My dad had insurance, which paid my mom and has kept her living from then to now, which is 23 years. And so there are a lot of memories, a lot of things that came up from around that time that sort of informed me going forward. So my mom was moving to a smaller house. I was starting to think you know, how is she going to live? How is she going to earn any money? Because she's not my dad's income people's his business or what's going to happen with the business and there was a lot around that Time of of changes and sort of a different approach to life from there.

Jason Butler 20:06
So you about 16 shorter you know about a year off your your dad passed away and your mom was going through all these changes, you got scouted and you for becoming a footballers, football academy or whatever it was. And you said, Yep, yeah. So, so that was a big change in your life did that did that in a way give you a focus and something to direct your attention into? And? And then I'm wondering what you learned about yourself as you were doing that? Because Because you I mean, how long were you obviously getting paid, you know, a wage and your mom was getting some money. So things weren't terrible financial, I'm just wondering how you how you developed as an individual, your relationship with money at that stage?

Sam Sloma 20:43
Yeah, so that that was my first I remember, we got our first pay packet of it was about 750 quid in or 16 1999. Yeah, so that you, you're getting probably about 175 pound a week, something like that from, from the government training scheme, then we used to get expenses. And they paid my mom on top of that. And so that was, you know, it was great. The first time there was, you know, any sizable money anywhere. And I remember, the four of us were good friends, we used to traveling together the first paycheck, we all went and bought matching jumpers in slightly different shades of blue, which is we all laugh about now. And yeah, I remember thinking, Okay, this is great, I've got I've got some money, I can now start to earn, I have a three year contract. So I was going to be paid for a period of time. And that was, and that was it, it was off to work and to try and try and progress and, and live a dream and see how far I could go. Again, it wasn't massively money related, you knew that if you if you became a footballer, and you and things went as well as gonna be, there were big rewards there. But you also know that the percentage of people that that made it and went on to have amazing careers was very slim. So it was all about, you know, enjoying that time and trying to do as well as you could, and make sure that you know, because he enjoyed it and just took something out of it. I think there's loads of things you can take from a football career. But you never quite know there's a bit of luck involved. Someone's got a, you know, taken on you the right time injuries, all of these things sort of come into the equation. But again, money related, it was great to have some money and be able to spend, you know, it wasn't masses, but it required a lot for for summer 16 to start enjoying some being able to buy some stuff.

Jason Butler 22:29
So if you were 1617. At that stage, were you a saver, were you a spender? We are somewhere in between, because people tend to sort of they have a sort of a predisposition. Don't that a young age?

Sam Sloma 22:41
Yeah, I was a spender. I wasn't a saver. I wasn't a saver.

Unknown Speaker 22:46
I

Unknown Speaker 22:50
had sort

Sam Sloma 22:53
Exposing myself lazy I didn't, I didn't save anything, it wasn't on my mind to save. I didn't think that far ahead. I think this is one of the things I teach now to young footballers, when you've got a three year contract, if at 16, it feels like it's a long time. And it feels like the next one's not is not an issue. And you don't even need to think about it. So no, I lived I lived very much hand to mouth for quite a few years, yet long into my mid to late 20s. And that's a part of that is related to earnings. Part of it related to me enjoying stuff and enjoying time. But the other thing that I did do, which I was lucky with, you know, my dad had left us all some money, and I bought a flat near us. When I was I think I just turned 19. And because I had earnings and I could get a mortgage, I bought a flat very early on the outskirts of London, and I've been able to move up the property ladder to too, and we've done quite well from that financially by like more than judgment. And that's allowed, that's allowed us in the background to continue paying down property and put us in a good position from a from a property aspect. My wife and I.

Jason Butler 24:10
So I'm just thinking here about the messages. There were two messages about lift for the moment, you know, you never know what the futures got. That's a very strong point. I know that you you you're writing and speaking you're talking about. But there was also this issue that if your mom hadn't had the insurance, how would life be different for both her and for you and your siblings in terms of like, you know, going out to buy the flat and stuff? I mean, would it have been substantially different? Yeah,

Sam Sloma 24:33
I mean, I, the truth is, it would have been drastically different. I have a couple of friends who are in a similar situation. And I have watched them fund their mother and really have to dig deep to support their own family plus their mom. And, you know, I'm hugely grateful that that hasn't been what's happened to us because it would have been really difficult. Very, very difficult. Our life would have been very different. And again, part of when I'm speaking to clients, insurance is a huge thing for us. Because I can give a real example of how it helps, and and why it's important. So again, it's framed a lot of my advice over the last 10 years.

Jason Butler 25:15
But presumably your dad, you must be very proud of what your dad despite your loss, you must be very proud of him to make sure he had that stuff in in place, because he did the right thing for his family, didn't he?

Sam Sloma 25:25
Yeah, it's weird. Again, we are I was 15. So we never really spoke about that stuff. And I'm sure had we have, you know, we were very close, I'm sure had, you know, had he still been alive, we were just spoken about all different kinds of things. And he would have worked out and told me that why it's important, all these other stuff. But I find it strange that they were spenders, but had the foresight to to insure themselves quite heavily. And I would have loved to have known why they did that, or why he thought that was important. Because it is obviously important. But it's been an amazing, save safety net for my mom and the help for me and my sisters over the past 20 years. It's really interesting that they did that. And I'm very pleased and happy that they did, because it's been a huge help for us and a sort of burden loss for my mom.

Jason Butler 26:15
Yeah. And that's a very big message. Because we don't have that enough on this show. People talking about insurance. It's a boring thing, right? No one wants insurance until you need to claim on it. It's funny. You know, last year, I put on place income protection for me. So I could do my turnouts every year and someone's ever Why are you doing that? I mean, I've sold to companies I've done okay. And I said, well, it's not that I necessarily need the money at my stage in life. It's just it's a principle, if I insure against it, I'm probably not going to get ill. Right. But if I do get ill, I can still find my ICER announced. Yeah, so it's a funny thing. It's not even just, I mean, most people, it's because they they're going to be vulnerable, and it's a low probability high impact event. In other words, it's a low chance of it happening, but if it does, it's a real big deal. So I think the point is, I put that in place because I really believe that income protection is probably up there with eating and breathing closely followed by life insurance. So you've just done you just illustrated the real world effect of it. So take us forward then in the football career. So how did that develop and and you bought the flat 19 or 20 you had the football career? How did your your sort of lifestyle develop and the role of money in it?

Sam Sloma 27:25
So really, interestingly, and again, I didn't think matters about this at the time and looking back but i i never earned huge money from football. So I lived a great life. And it was it was fun and I traveled so I did my three years from 16 to 19 Wimbledon I then Stein the year extension 220 I broke my leg in the last year of my contract while I was still earning that's that stage I was earning maybe maybe 15 grand a year 20 grand a year something like that. So when I got released, this was in 2003 and I was 20 I'd never earn good money you know I was earning I was okay for for a young lad but it was never you know big money to really be putting loads away You know, when you think of a mortgage and bills and other bits there was never really any excess and that's why I was always a spender rather than the saver because it was never masses leftover.

Jason Butler 28:21
Presumably also you didn't take on a high octane lifestyle driving around and brick barons and stuff like that as well right?

Sam Sloma 28:27
No, no, no it was never It was never that but it you know I did. I did have a car and I did. You know I think go out there. You know I wasn't sitting at home every night doing nothing I was out and about and having fun enjoy my life

Jason Butler 28:39
but I was never It was never lavish never I couldn't afford that you were saving through the house that you bought because the zombie had a mortgage on it so you didn't see it like that but you were kind of enforcing saving but you just weren't getting loads of money aside and ramming your pension fallen away because you're 20 you won't have fun right?

Sam Sloma 28:55
Correct. Didn't didn't really give pensions a second thought probably can tell you what a pension was back then. But I had in my head that I had a I had my first flat and you know they were going to be a savings or or that was an investment you know i don't see it like that now but it did help and that was part of the in the background of my head in my head that I you know, I'd had something to fall back on. I had some sort of asset I could do something with which was great. then fast forward a little bit I went to play in the states and I was in America for a year again didn't earn a lot but had a great year out there. came back and I was working and sort of doing different jobs in property lettings agents and I was playing football part time. And then I was scouted to go and play again at a high level so the conference and that was full time but I took a pay cut from working and playing part time to go and play full time. So I was 2324 and I was earning again probably 25 grand a year living in London, living a brilliant life but earning nothing. Yeah, and I did that with Dagenham Redbridge until I was 25. 26 and at that stage it was like, right, you know, you need to crack on here. Because if you want to live in London, if you want to have a nice life, if you want to get married and have kids and live in a nice house and cars and all the other things that you do on this just not sustainable, it's brilliant for you, and you've had a great 10 years doing it. But now Now is the time where you need to crack on and go and go and work out what you're going to do and how it's going to work for you. So I really had a bit of an epiphany about 25. And it's kind of when I was getting married and back with my good my then girlfriend who was going to be my wife. It was then really when I started to think right now you need to get your head in gear and you need to work out what you're going to do. Because if you want to earn money, and you want to have these things, you just need to move forward. So that was what I did, I left football. And I sort of found my way into financial services. But it really was you need to crack on. And what again, what I was thinking about when I was listening to your other pods in my story, the reason it's interesting is because I started from the bottom in financial services. So almost 10 years ago today, I started my first job, my first salary is 22 and a half grand and I was 26. I've never been in a finance world or never been in a financial company didn't know what financial services was. And I was literally lowest on the totem pole 10 years ago today.

Jason Butler 31:19
But what drew you to that job? Was it just a job to earn wage? You didn't think about it as a proper career path? You didn't do all the valuations working out all hell? where's this going to take me? Or did you

Sam Sloma 31:28
know what I thought was the company was a big company, they were managing what? They're actually a boutique company, but I thought they were a big company. So they they were managing $3 billion in assets. Okay, and they had a big a big office in Warren Street. And I went out there and everyone was looking very smart. And everyone looked very assured. And it's I just looked at that and thought, right, you know, these people look like they're doing well financially. And so there must be an opportunity for me to go and see what it looks like. and go from there. And that and that was it. So that was the due diligence I did, I went to his house. And his house was lovely. And, and that was really it. He wanted to give me a chance they wanted to, to build a sports division. So I was still a little bit of football, it wasn't going to be it wasn't the traditional route and financial service where I was going to be admin support, I was going to be out and about meeting people and building a network. And I just decided to give it a go that that was really the DD that I did. And if I didn't like it, I you know, would have found my way somewhere else. I was confident that whatever I was going to do, I was going to do okay. And I just have a, you know, my say arrogance, I don't think it is I have a confidence in myself that I would always do. Okay, so I always knew I was going to do right.

Jason Butler 32:47
You had to lose, and everything to gain. That's, that's by the

Sam Sloma 32:49
way at that stage. That's it, there was nothing to lose. I'd come from having a brilliant time in my life but earning no money. And I was watching some of my peers do really well. They were pushing on with their lives and doing really well in their careers and having nice holidays and, and stuff that I wanted. And I needed to get going because I felt like football whilst I loved it didn't kick me in the path that I wanted to go to. And I needed to get moving so that we I was quite driven in terms of my need to get earning and doing well.

Jason Butler 33:20
So the allure of the high flying company that ran all these billions of pounds The guy with a the governor with the trappings of wealth, they all look good, right? Nothing to think Yeah, not like here from your perspective. So you started out and how did that all develop then? And what was the reality versus the rhetoric?

Sam Sloma 33:38
Well, the reality was that the reality was that there were a lot of people doing well there. It was a good company. And I learned a lot. So I started the bottom what they taught me there, and what they taught myself and the guy I was working with Adam, we were basically left our own devices to go and build a division. So we had to go meet all accountants, lawyers, agents, footballers. And we really had to put the groundwork and we had to do X amount of meetings a week, we had to see X amount of people we had to report in on a Friday about how many meetings we'd had. And at the time, it felt like a slog, and it felt like sort of paddling uphill, or whatever the pushing a boulder uphill, whether that expression is it was really difficult. You know, it was it was a long period of hard hard work. We were out a lot meeting a lot of people having meetings cancelled a lot of nose a lot of not interested a lot of something, I suppose looking down on us because we were sort of the the newcomers and we were both young and inexperienced. But really, that laid the groundwork for both of us to go and flourish in the years coming because what it allowed us to do is is not be afraid of hearing No. It allowed us to build up the confidence to pick up the phone and to call people and to make meetings and to hit targets. And to just get out there, you know, there is no substitute for hard work. And there is no substitute for going out and putting the hours in the miles and people appreciate it. You know, people appreciate you following up, people appreciate you taking the time to go and see them, you know, COVID except in the period of COVID, obviously, but that was really the foundations for me building a network of clients and referrals and people that we liked and got on with. And so that was really how it worked. And it took a long time for me to do my exam. To me, well, I say that two years to do the IMC and then my rows become qualified to look after clients. And that was a big thing. Because I, you know, I was giving a lot of my contacts and people I knew up. But they were signing with the other advisor in our business because I wasn't qualified. So to get my qualifications was great. And it really allowed me to go and sign while we're in inverted commas was my clients, even though they were part of the team. And yeah, from there, I started earning and my wages went up every time I passed an exam. And I was I was doing okay, I was doing okay. But I was there for three or four years. And I decided that investment management while it was important, it wasn't the be all and end all for the clients that I was dealing with. So sportsmen needed much more than investment management, they needed mortgages, they needed insurance, let's just, let's just

Jason Butler 36:23
stop there a minute. So so what you were doing was finding people who had existing capital that needed to kind of arranging and looking after, and that wasn't really, what most of the people you were meeting really needed, they needed something else, right?

Sam Sloma 36:36
Well, yes, I mean, a lot of people were meeting with just starting. So same as the footballers I deal with today, they just got a big contract, and they had big income, but no capital. And so, you know, from just an investment standpoint, if someone let's say they're investing, you know, 15,000 pounds a month, which is a, you know, a lot of money to be investing, if you're charging 1% on those assets, you can't really own any money for the first two or three years. Because it takes a lot of time to build up those that that wealth to a level where if you've got a minimum of 500,000, for the company that you're investing with, that's three years before you can earn, what would be a normal fee for the company. So I just started to work out that we weren't serving them that well, we weren't seeing within the company as particularly great, because our numbers were tiny in comparison with everything else. And also the clients that we were working with really needed other things. And that's how I sort of started to think right, I might need to make a change here.

Jason Butler 37:36
So how is your relationship with your personal relationship with money now? So you were starting to earn more money, right, but that is one thing, passing exams, which are technical. There's another thing about actually being congruent and understanding how to the right role of money in your own life? And had you gone from being a consumer of money to an accumulator of it or a saver or investor or no, you still living my whole life?

Sam Sloma 38:02
So a good question, I was still, I would say, living the full life or who was nowhere near lavish. You know, I was probably at that time earning that say, I'd gone up from 22 and a half to maybe 40 or 50 grand a year. Okay. So 28 times, all right, yeah. It's okay. But if you you know, if you want to live in London, and you know, you want to buy a house, the mortgage is gonna swallow up a fair amount. And then by the time you've done your bills, and you've eaten out a few times, you know, it's not that is not that is not sort of huge amounts of surplus, but it was okay. Okay, and also, I, you know, by that time, me and my wife were on holidays, and we were doing stuff, so I was still a spender, but I wasn't earning enough to be to have masses of surplus. Now, the interesting thing here, when you ask that question is, I still wasn't in the stage of thinking about money and relationship to money. What I was, was thinking, you know, these, these people are investing are starting to learn about investments in the world of investing and starting to get excited and interested in that world. And I was starting to think about how could I start to invest? So I was starting to think about my own situation. But it really wasn't until I went to I made the move and went to first wealth. And Anthony and Robert there were talking about enhancing people's lives. And that sort of lifestyle financial planning came into place is when I really started to connect the dots and those two were instrumental in in changing my mindset for money at that point.

Jason Butler 39:32
So at that stage, you kind of had out grown the firm You're in for various reasons. They weren't delivering what you needed for the clients. You weren't a big sort of fish in a small set and you were starting to find your own journey with money you then happen to do they find your Did you find them or is it just fortuitous? You knew each other or what and then their message really resonated with you so so how

Sam Sloma 39:50
did that work? Be against slightly different they I was introduced to them by a mutual friend. And we just hit it off almost immediately. I really got on with Anthony and Rob when I met them. When I joined them, I sat next to Robin. And he and I became quite good friends. And I just I loved the way they operated, they were very relaxed, you know, they were very comfortable with me sort of working in my own way, within their frame. And once I've been there a year, they they went on Paul arsons course, which was common, but the name of the course. But they went on a three hats and they did the Lifestyle coaching thing with Paul and they came back into the office and said, Look, we're going to change the way we run the business, you know, we are going to move to a lifestyle, financial planning business. And we're going to talk to people about, you know, what they how they want to live. And I just remember sitting, I would open with Robin and I said this, it sounds a bit American To me, it sounds a little bit soft and a little bit airy fairy. And I'm not sure that I get it. And we spent some time talking about it over over the next three or four months. And they were they were, they were going to implement this into the business. And it clicked to me that I actually dealing with people's emotions and telling them how they can live and how long they you know how long they've got left from their, their monetary perspective and what they can do with their time. And actually giving people the comfort for them to live or telling the truth that that they're the uncomfortable truth, or they're not gonna be able to do what they want to do. But at least they know, it really started to click in my brain. And that is the way that you can have influence and to help people just investing their money, when you don't control the markets is not really useful to anyone. They're reducing that story. There is using that, but it's not where the value lies, the value lies in the relationship and being able to understand people's position, and help them achieve whatever it is that they want to achieve. And that's really when I started to think, Okay, this is great. This is how you can help people this is where you can be a value. And you can become a trusted an actual trusted advisor when you're dealing with people in whatever their situation is. And you can help them keep them on the path. You can help them achieve things you can have tangible outcomes. And that was really the start of my, my own personal journey, but also the journey for the business for engage. And for my clients, it was all work together, which is quite nice looking back, it's all started at the same time to be able to help and grow and see the path from there.

Jason Butler 42:26
So that's interesting. Um, so about this time, as you know, I mean, you can't sell something if I can use that term, because we're all selling something and really believe in it. Unless you're actually bought it yourself, right? Yep. So you know, like, I'm a big fan of insurance, you know, if you can't, so how did you actually put yourself through this at that stage? Did you really put a shine a light on you and thought, hang on, what is the role of money in my life? Or did you not you just thought this is a great way of building a business but hadn't actually drunk the Kool Aid yourself?

Sam Sloma 42:58
No, again, I hadn't drunk the Kool Aid myself, I, I was still, you know, we are still in the belief, the building as building and growth together, we are still in the building stage myself. So I, we moved, my wife and I moved in 2015, we did a big housing project, we will probate we put a lot of money into building that house. And that was again, all part of my my own process myself. So in 2010, we bought our first probate and we did that our my wife's father is a structural engineer, and a surveyor and has helped us do those projects. So we've moved up the property ladder quite considerably in that period, to to a timing and be being quite savvy with the property purchases. And that has taken up quite a lot of my, my money and my time and my energy in the background. So what I've been doing my own Kool Aid perspectives, or drinking that is, is to build the business. We're now the last few years have been fortunate to be in a position where we can be putting away quite substantially and building our own wealth in the same way as our clients. And being able to say, look, this is what we do. This is what we're working on. These are the things that we invest in. And, and I'm on the same journey as my clients. But, you know, the numbers that we put into our our house have been quite substantial. And as I said before, it's allowed us buying the property early. And making a couple of savvy moves with with rundown properties that we've done up and sold on has allowed us to live a lifestyle that maybe we wouldn't have if we just had a bit of a linear path.

Jason Butler 44:36
Yeah, so essentially, you built your, you built your wealth base from, you know, savvy property purchases, you know, adding value is that true, and building your own business over the last four or five years and it's bringing your income. I think what I'm really trying to get to is not so much where you are on the wealth kind of accumulation stage because that's a product of time, right and patience and inputs. I'm just thinking about how how Where how you went on the journey of authenticity and honesty with yourself and your wife about the role of money in your life. So in other words, true for the lifestyle financial planning is about making money or serving, right? You're the master, you call the shots, and you don't give it power over you. And it doesn't define you, right? It's just a just a thing. I'm just interested in Do you now deliver this service? Is it just a case that you're on a continual learning curve yourself? Because the more you learn about yourself, the better you can be for clients? Or is it you're learning lots from clients that they you then sort of bring back into your own thing? Because you see people every day, don't you? And you see the impact of decisions are in decisions and silly decisions, or good decisions, or whatever it is. I'm just wondering if that's like a feedback loop. I'm just wondering how you've personally gone from being someone who was a footballer, didn't know anything about investing, then you understood about investment management now moved on to lifestyle planning and running your own business? I'm just wondering what that feedback loop is, and how you've managed that transition?

Sam Sloma 46:00
Yeah, that's a good question. There's quite a lot in there, I think that we are definitely learning every single day, from clients from ourselves from running a business and from just different experiences. So we're definitely not the finished article yet. We're lucky that a lot of the clients we look after, and I say lucky, it's actually by design, they're all have a similar kind of age and profile. And that helps because we have shared experiences. And some, like you said, on a different scale of wealth, and depending on what they've done, or where they're at. But there are still a lot of similarities and experiences that we can have with our clients. Whilst we're on that journey, and part of it for us is, is telling ourselves the truth, and being able to say, right, we need to have these habits in place. And what we've done quite well is habit formation. So I read James clears atomic habits A few years ago, and just the thing from for myself, the journey for myself is that I have to have structure. Because if I don't have the structure, it just won't happen. So going into automatic savings going into nudging those savings up on an annual basis, and getting him into habits has really been powerful for me. Because otherwise is, you know, we've got so many things going on, it doesn't work in the same way. So that's really how we built you know ourselves as to put everything to be to be habit based. And with clients, we do a lot of the same stuff. So we do a lot around expenditure. And by that we don't ask clients to or people to just tell us what their expenditures, we physically take six months worth of bank statements on a CSV file, because people will tell themselves stories about what they spend on what it looks like. Whereas in reality is different. Now we're not we're not judging, is we're not here to judge what we're here to do is say, look, the numbers won't lie, they will just tell us what it is. And whatever it is, is okay, we but once we know what that data is, and once we know what it looks like, then we can inform ourselves going forward. So for most clients, not everyone does it I like to say brothers are for most, we ask them for bank statements on a six monthly basis just to check in and look what the numbers look like. Because that allows us to be informed going forward, and to help them make good decisions. And we do that for ourselves as well. And I'm interested to know salary, but

Jason Butler 48:16
it's good. Yeah, now I'm totally with you. Because you know, I've got my new book coming at the end of the year, called the money miracle. And one whole third of it is all about routine and habits. Okay. So, you know, I've read everything you can possibly imagine on the subject. And you're absolutely right. But when you share the reality, as you say, in a non judgement tool, coming at it from the right intention. All your customers and your clients, are they really surprised? Are they embarrassed? Do they feel shame? Are they do they feel liberated? How will they feel when you tell them the truth? Because just to finish that point, like for instance, I keep my budget meticulously done, but I just suddenly realized we weren't I wasn't putting the pet costs on, you know, and they always come in with injections and something they need doing stuffing is a small thing in the scheme of things. But how did I miss that? So if I missed that, and I'm really organized, how does the average person who just thinks they're spending versus what they are spending? So you know, what's, what feedback, what does it what emotions and responses you're getting from your clients when you tell them the truth about where the money really is going?

Sam Sloma 49:20
And I think all of the above that you mentioned we've seen, so the very rare that we come across an emotion that we haven't seen. Often, you know, what is 100% of clients say to us? Well, the last six months isn't a reflective reality of what's happened.

Jason Butler 49:36
Oh, yeah.

Sam Sloma 49:38
It's amazing that every single client...

Jason Butler 49:41
It's justification right, it's defensiveness.

Sam Sloma 49:43
Yeah. And I just said that, that's fine, but we'll do it in six months, again, the next six months and we'll just run it as an ongoing basis. The point that we say to clients is is you know, as is not judgmental, so whatever the numbers are is what they are that we have clients that they are super surprised and want really go into the detail. And we categorize all the spending where we can sometimes it's not possible to do that. But for them, you know, they're surprised, and they want to look deep, deeper into the numbers, some of the people are pleasantly surprised, you know, it's less than they thought, some of the people are meticulous, like yourself, and they have a real strong handle. So they pretty much know, but there might be some outliers. Some people have an idea of what they're spending, but they don't include holidays, which is, you know, crazy. And in for us, it's just about understanding their position. So we've seen all of those, you know, shame. I don't think people don't they feel shame, I think sometimes they can feel a little bit embarrassed, or if the numbers are really big, they're a little bit like, you know, this is a bit of a first world problem that my expenditures 30,000 a month or something, you know, it can be a little bit cringe worthy. For them, not for us, but you know, everyone is different. And we sort of try and say to them in the process, when they're sending us the stuff, that whatever we find is what we find the exercise is to understand the data more than to to judge what they've been doing.

Jason Butler 51:03
And I'm wondering if when you're sharing, you're discussing where the money's going? Is that all part of that self discovery? Understanding No, yourself all that kind of stuff, the honesty? And, and and how does their current spending reality reflect their true priorities? Or has it just do you find me most people are just the spending cap sort of creeps up, and you just happens, it's not being planned. But it but it may or may not reflect their, their priorities and values as they are now compared to what they were five years ago?

Sam Sloma 51:37
Yeah, very much. So I think for the for the group that we look after the knowing yourself is difficult, because yourself is changing your priorities change, you know, you might have a parent that you need to look after that comes out of, you know, something changes, and you need to look after them, or you've got young children, and you then start thinking about private schooling or, you know, you want to move to have more space for your face, or, for the cohort of people we look after are often changing quite regularly. And that's why a lot of our planning is well, all planning is ongoing and iterative. But a lot of ours is quite intensive, because things are changing quite dramatically. The point of expenditure is to make sure that, whilst they're working with that lifestyle proof doesn't come in hugely, because that is one of the you know, it's one of the proponents of financial, not destruction, but non success or not doing well comes from expenditure, and not understanding and keeping on top of it, it's a real problem in the UK, I think, expenditure and keeping up with the Joneses, and just really trying to keep on a level with everyone around you. And that's a bit of an issue that we see with our clients. So, you know, it really is trying to try to keep them understanding of what they're doing, keep them as to, to their why's and what they want to achieve. And all the things that we talk about, you make sure that their money and their spending is in line with what they want to do. And that's really is sort of the continual message is to say, this is what your you're spending, this is what it looks like, you know, we spoken about these are the things you want to achieve. is doing that, you know, part of part of the the why and is it? Or is it out of control of where you are? Or is it different to what you want to achieve? Those are the things that we we try and hammer home.

Jason Butler 53:20
I just wish I'd met you when I was 2425. Because that learning to direct your money before you've got it in an intentional way, including making that allowance for the fun stuff, right? You know, sort of the fun stuff doesn't derail you and and consume you and meaning you end up taking on debt and stuff. Do you find that your clients find that structure? I mean, like how could anyone leave? How could anyone not work with you? And so been working with you? 2832, whatever, and you built the structure for them? Is it a case they outgrow your do they does the relationship evolve? And it becomes then one other kind of supportive as opposed to subservient?

Sam Sloma 54:00
Well, it's a good question that the business is three years old. So our retention rate is extremely high. That, you know, that doesn't mean that we want to rest on our laurels. We think that the relationship is going to evolve with our clients. Because, you know, part of the part of the process is teaching them about investments, because a lot of them are quite well a lot of them are bright, and they want to know and understand where their money's going. So that's sort of one element. The second is, you know, things like I said continually changing so whether their kids are coming out of school, where can they redirect their excess money? Or we do we have quite a lot of clients that say to us, Look, my my mom is thinking about downsizing, can you speak to her so we're now starting to speak to the generation above them and talk about how we can do maybe some inheritance tax planning or some other ideas for the family. We have a couple where we're, we're dealing with the children, so they're a little bit older, but they've got children that are coming into wealth or they've just turned 18 and legally, they're It becomes there. So they have to be a client by their own. So we're doing educational pieces with the children, it really varies. I mean, you know, I can't say that everyone is going to stay with us for the whole period. But we'd like to think that after, you know, 3456 years working together, like some of our clients is we're quite ingrained as part of their life. And that's the way we like to be. And that's the relationship we like to have. Hopefully, it continues, but you know, you never know, we're always looking at what technology is on the horizon, either to take us out or to enhance what we do. Because we don't know what's around the corner. So we just want to do our best and, and hope that we're adding value, we try and monitor the value that we bring to clients, cuz that's quite important to us.

Jason Butler 55:44
So what would you say that you've learned personally, and through your clients, and through your studies, and through just being around? What would you say are the kind of key tenants have a good relationship with money, as you see it from way where, you know, you're what life has taught you?

Sam Sloma 56:01
So one of the first things is, well, this loads of different things, but we I always ensure I want to ensure all my clients so that if the worst happens, you know, generally, it's very affordable for them to make sure them and their family are covered. Okay, that's one of the first proponent that we like to do. The second is you've got to find the balance, balance is key with everything, you have to enjoy your life. Because if something changes, and you've got loads of money, and loads of investments, but but no fun, or no time with your children, or no time with what's important, then there's no real value in that. So we try and keep our clients very balanced in what they do. The third is we talk a lot about human capital. So we want all of our clients to make the most of whatever is they do. Now, we do have a few clients that don't love what they do. And you know, they're just doing a job, and it's well paid. And it's hard to get out of that cycle. But a lot of our clients love their job, they love what they do, they love the work, they love growing and building or winning or being ambitious and trying to be the best in their, whatever their field is. And we love that. So we're trying to help people maximize their human capital, and not worry about the other stuff so much, because they are the biggest proponent of their own success. You know, they go and do really well, then they will come and do really well as it sounds obvious, but sometimes people don't think about it in that way. And the second is, you know, investing and building wealth for you, your family, whoever it is, is slow and boring and difficult. No one ever gets to 55 or 60, and says I'm really annoyed that I've got a million pound put away, or whatever the number is, you know, you do it by doing the basics and good habits every year. And then you look back and said, Blimey, I'm so happy, I've done that stuff. So our job is about keeping people on the path, keeping them on the straight and narrow, keeping them happy. But keeping them really understanding that we are building something that is is being sold in 10 1520 years down the line. And that's hard.

Jason Butler 57:57
And it's progress, not perfection, right? You know, just just just keep moving forward. Enjoy life now, as you say, get the balance between now and the future, get the good habits, get the structure, have the accountability partner, whether it's a money coach, or a Samsung somatotype situation, a financial planner, whoever or even just your best friend or your partner. And just to finish Really? Where do you think? If you think about money, what do you think will? What do you think are the biggest opportunities that people face? Because we know what are the challenges are? But what do you think are the opportunities for people in terms of, you know, getting a getting themselves ahead financially, as you see it going forward?

Sam Sloma 58:40
question, what I think the opportunities are for people going forward. I think we're living in an interesting period at the moment through COVID. And there's loads of lessons to be taken from from this. But generally, you know, there is a big, wide world out there and there are opportunities to, to live and to enjoy life. And that really is the number one priority, I think it should be for most people. So the opportunity is there for you to go and find a job or find a career or a vocation that you love and enjoy. And that really should be the number one priority. Go and find something that you spend your time on that you love doing. Because if you love doing it, it's much easier to go and enjoy and to build something and to create and to tinker. And that's really what what we try and help clients do is focus on things that are going to give them fulfillment, joy, and pleasure because from there if you have all of those things you'll go into okay. And that's really what we're trying to help clients do is to live and be okay and to enjoy all of the things that the fruits of their labor, produce.

Absolutely here and we're putting it I'm not 100% sure. But yes, the opportunities are for people to go and create, to go and achieve whatever it is they want to achieve. That's the opportunity they have to grab. You know, we call Do that for them. But we can go and facilitate the other staff so that they can focus on that stuff for them.

Jason Butler 1:00:05
See their own financial and life affairs. Yeah, I get it. Yes, Sam could talk to you all day. You're a busy guy. No, thank you for taking the time out. If people want to find out about your organization because he got a lovely business there. What's the website address?

Sam Sloma 1:00:20
website is engaged. EMG AGF s Foxtrot, Sierra Dakota, UK. They can find us on the socials or me. Sam Toma, Twitter, Instagram, all the usuals be happy to have a chat with anyone if I can help. Jason, thank you so much. I've read. I've read your first book. I've read the second one. But I've definitely read the first one. Keep doing what you're doing written five.

Jason Butler 1:00:40
So you've got plenty to choose from and oh my god, go on. Make sure you get the next one the money miracle out later in the year because I know there's lots that kind of struck a chord with you. Thank you for your time. Make sure we put the your website address on the show notes. I know you've got a wealth of material and you've got your own podcast, haven't you? You just want to give everyone Yeah.

Sam Sloma 1:00:58
Yes, the engaging people podcast. We're up to 80 episodes, we interview sport professionals or business entrepreneurs about their life. And then it's it's been called attainable success. So it's not the billionaires. It's just people doing quite well and hearing their story and what they've done. So lovely,

Jason Butler 1:01:14
lovely. It's a great podcast. Definitely check it out. It's well worth looking into. And you do speak to some very, very interesting people. Well, well recommend that. Sam, thank

Sam Sloma 1:01:23
you so much, Jason, really appreciate it.

Jason Butler 1:01:24
Thanks for being on the podcast. And we'll we'll speak again soon, no doubt.

Sam Sloma 1:01:27
Lovely. Take care.

Jason Butler 1:01:33
Thanks for listening to Real Money Stories with me Jason Butler. If you like what you hear, please do tell your friends. And more importantly, please rate us on your preferred podcast app, because it really does help us get the message out there. So until next time, good luck with your money journey. Real Money Stories is sponsored by Vanguard bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. The value of investments can go down as well as up and you might get back less than you invested.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai