63. Stacey Lowman Goes on a Money Journey

This week I speak to former investment banker, Stacey Lowman, about why and how she swapped her high earning city job for a much simpler life travelling around Europe in a camper van.

Key insights include:

• Why careers which use money as a measure of success can make you unhappy.

• Why you need to be wary of the amount of time you spend on working and earning money.

• The tenuous link between a high income and being good with money.

• How redefining success so that it is aligned with your values helps in developing a plan to achieve it.

• Why you need to be happy when you are single, so you can be happy in a future relationship.

• Why you need to track your progress with money.

Stacey’s story is a wonderful example of how you can loosen money’s power over your life, and make sure that your money habits, decisions and behaviours are intentional and effective.

You can check out Stacey’s work at https://www.pachiramoney.com/.

Episode Transcript

00:05
Hello, and welcome to the Real Money Stories podcast. I'm Jason Butler. And I invite you to join me as I have intimate money conversations with people from all walks of life. Whether you're just starting out and your money journey, or well down the track, there's bound to be something you can learn from these stories about taking more control of your money, so you worry less, and enjoy life more. Real Money stories is sponsored by Vanguard, bringing value to 30 million investors worldwide. Visit vanguardinvestor.co.uk for more details. And remember, the value of investments can go down, as well as up and you may get back less than you invested.

Hello, Jason here. Thanks for joining me on another edition of Real Money Stories. Well, it's almost the end of the year, and a year it's been god 2020, the year that we'd all rather forget. But this week's interview, I know you're gonna love, I've selected it for you because it is about someone who made a major change in their life, they rewrote the script. And they started out afresh. And I think that's a really great story to end the year on, if you're thinking about taking stock of where you are, and what you might do with your life and the role of money in it in 2021. But before we get into that, I thought I'd just give you a summary of my top 10 tips. What I've learned for being, I think winning with money in the future. So let's, let's run through these and see what you think of them. So I am, I think it's really important to think about and define what a good life looks like, and the role of money in achieving it. So what that means is really just being really clear what a good life looks like. And thinking about, you know, what that is going to mean in terms of your money choices, behaviors, habits and routines. So for me, for instance, a good life is all about having choices, having options, staying healthy, and being proud of what I do. So, you know, spend time thinking about that. And you have to redefine that because your priorities and your views change. And second thing is to have a positive focus on the past years. What I mean by that is, even if you've had a really terrible year, think back to where there were some wins and things that did go right. Because they give you clues about what might work in the future. And it also helps protect your confidence, it's really important to protect your confidence in life. The third, the idea here is just to embrace your money mistake.

So here's the thing, you may have made mistakes in the past year, or even the past 10 years, I certainly have made loads of mistakes. But what what you do with mistakes is that they don't define you what they do is especially if you want to get ahead in life is you you learn from them, you embrace the new accept them, you give them a big cuddle a big, wet, sloppy kiss, and you say Come here, and you sort of you just sort of bring them close and say, there we go, that was a little thing I learned about money or life or work or careers, and you move on from it. Try not to make the same mistake again. And, you know, take take something from it. The fourth step is here to clarify your values and your redline. So what that means is, you know, what's really important to you? What do you stand for? Because that will really help you make those key working, saving spending, investing and borrowing decisions. So one of my core values, which is is a red line, for me is honesty. I tried to be scrupulously honest, in everything I do, I tried to be fair, I tried to be reasonable, I tried to be put myself in other people's shoes. And certainly with myself build project I've had on I've, I've had to try and be as fair as possible if people are late for the job, or they want to charge me extra or, you know, whatever the job didn't grow quite right. So. So to be honest yourself, always, you can then sort of apply that value to other people. So you know, I always pay my bills on time, you know, probably the same day I get the bill. So therefore I expect my bills to be paid when I'm invoicing people for work that I've done. So again, if you have your own values, and you're clear on that, and your red lines it makes it makes those those money related decisions a lot easier. And the fifth idea here is to update your money beliefs, because your money beliefs obviously are a product of a whole host of things, particularly money scripts that you get when you're young and your experiences but also you're educating and learning yourself and learning experiences aren't usually go through life. But your your beliefs change over time. You are not the same person now that you were one year ago, five years ago, 10 years ago, 20 years ago, Perish the thought.

But if you've got money, beliefs that are outdated, or they're Limiting you some how you need to reframe them and think about them in a different way. And also, are they true? You know, are you just saying something to yourself, which is holding you back. So think about your money beliefs. The sixth idea here is just to use the eight money milestones that you can download from my website, Jason hyphen, butler.com. So the money milestones, it's just a really simple framework to help you make key money, decisions, milestones, 124, you got to do them in order 567 and eight, do them concurrently, if you wish. So go and use those if that would help you. The seventh idea here is to focus on just making tiny, small, really small improvements in your financial life. And that means perhaps looking at your environment, looking at the people around you, routines, things you're subscribed to, and but just focus on making really small changes makes it a lot easier one for you to do it. And to few to protect your confidence. Because if you try too much, too quickly, and it doesn't work, then you think you're a failure, and you've reinforced negative thoughts about yourself. So focus on small, small, tiny improvements will always win the day. And then you can build on them, and you can get momentum. And that's what you're looking to get with your money and your financial life. The eighth idea is just protecting your gratitude. And what I mean by that is, is if you have gratitude for what you do have, rather than worrying about what you don't have or what's wrong with your life, gratitude is a wonderful thing. And even when I'm feeling a bit sort of convergently, and bit down in the dumps, I think Oh, you know what, I'm really lucky that I can walk into the countryside here, I'm really lucky that I can sit and read this book, I'm really lucky that I've got my health or I'm really lucky that I've got my family. Because it's so easy, isn't it to feel hard done by all the victim. So focusing on gratitude, it also makes makes you much more appealing for abundance, well being and for money to hang out with you because it wants to hang out with people who are basically giving as opposed to taking. The ninth idea here is to just build on your strengths, not your weaknesses. And I don't mean, don't address any weaknesses, if you've got, you know, a particularly unpleasant weakness or something is really holding you back. But if you focus on what you're really good at, and where you excel, and where you can be the best version of you, there's a good chance that you're going to, you're going to actually get more success in your life and feel a lot more confident and capable than if you keep focusing on what's not working and what isn't right. And the final idea here is potentially just to get someone on your side, you don't have to do this alone. So yes, you can get paid help, whether that's a money coach, or a therapist or a counselor, or some kind of online course or whatever it is. Well, you can listen to things like this podcast and read books and what have you. But But getting also someone on your side who believes in you and whose intentions are honorable, and perhaps maybe in a similar situation to you where you can help each other, that can be really powerful. So whether that's your spouse, your partner, your friend or colleague, relative, a neighbor, just someone where you can share what you're trying to do with money, and your financial life. And perhaps they might open up to you maybe different numbers, you don't have to go into lots of detail, but just get someone on your side. So there we go. They're my 10 ideas for winning with money in 2021. So whatever 2021 looks for you, whatever direction you're going to go in. I wish you all the very best of luck with that. Thank you very much for being a listener on Real Money Stories. This week's interview I know you're going to love. It's with a an interesting lady who changed her life. She gave up a high paying job in the city. And she now basically travels the world in a camper van, doing what she loves. When she wants to, with who she wants to. I love the story. I know you're gonna love it. Miss Stacey Lowman. Hello, Stacey. Hi, Jason.

9:10
Thanks for having me.

9:12
Now, before we go on, tell us where you are speaking from right now because this is part of the story, right?

9:18
It is part of the story. Yeah. I'm sat in the back of my converted camper van on a beach in the south of Spain.

9:27
Yeah, I'm already envious. So well done now. That's good. He's pouring rain here in Suffolk. It hasn't stopped raining since about seven o'clock this morning. So but we've all got sunshine in our hearts. Right? It sounds like you've got more than most people. Good. Right. So tell us what you actually do right now. And then we'll go back to the sort of early days. How do you spend your days

9:49
and so I spend my days kind of 5050 work and play. So I'm 34 but I probably work about two and a half days a week. remotely at the moment. And some of that time is with a company called escape the city. They're a startup who helped people find a great work that they love. And then the rest of my working time is through my own business be carrying money, which is all about financial well being and supporting people to use their personal finances to tackle the climate crisis. And, and the rest of the time. It's living in my camper van and traveling around and wondering where I'm going to stay tonight and exploring.

10:34
Hmm, Sounds Sounds interesting. But I must say, I'm not just saying it's too big. You don't look 34 you look about 22. I mean, what it's obviously working right. So yeah, I think I think if anyone is not sure about the camper van and traveling around and never known where they are, it's clearly working. So the good livings is working well. So anyway. And so take us back then. And you know, I'm always interested about the early experiences people have with, you know, money spending work, that kind of thing. I wonder what the, the, the early money memories that you can think of in your family and what you learn about money and the kind of role of money?

11:12
yeah, interesting. And so when I think back to my childhood, my parents were both very good at saying we have enough. And let's also use money to make incredible memories. So I remember us spending enough on enjoyment and having amazing holidays with family and friends. But then also working really hard to. So I think I was fortunate where it was never kind of the pursuit of money at the expense of other things, there was always an element of enjoyment alongside, you know, the kind of working hard playing hard mentality. And my dad was a financial advisor, but we never actually really spoke about it. And, and it wasn't, I didn't go into money because of dad or anything like that. I never made that connection. And, and then at school, I went to a state school, and I just happened to be one of the one of the kids who, who got really good grades, and was one of the few that was encouraged to apply to go to Oxford for university, which I didn't get into that. That's another story. But I think at school, there was a sense of Stacy, you should take this direction. Stacy, if you're, you know, if you're getting good grades at this school, then you should be looking to move into a career where money is a measure of success. So like my education experience, I was definitely pushed down the road of go to a good university study economics and business go into the finance world, because you have the brains for it. And, and I think I was just kind of accepted that I didn't look at the alternative lifestyles too much until I was like in my mid 20s, really. So I did a very no roots have studied business and economics at work Business School, and then got a graduate place or city group investment banking in 2008. And then I had 10 years with Prudential and energy and investment management.

13:32
Interesting. So your dad was in the finance sector. Um, your mom sounds to me, like she was very into, you know, enjoy you having enjoyable experiences. Um, but I'm just trying to think, what did you learn about money when you were observing your parents leading up to when you went to uni? And then the workplace? Hmm,

13:54
yeah, I think I learned that money helps, but is not the goal in itself. Make sure that you have enough respect the role that money can play and what it can give to you. And, and work hard for it. But don't let it overtake everything else. So remember, what money is for and that's to give you meaning, in other ways.

14:24
So begin with the end in mind in the sentence, it's a means to an end, not the end in itself, right?

14:28
Hmm. Yeah.

14:29
Yeah. So I'm just thinking before you we go to the uni thing to do, did you in your peer group because the danger period for a lot of people, they're forming money beliefs, not only are they observing their parents, but they're also observing their peers. And there's that desperate need as a teenager, isn't it to fit in and be connected and be, you know, sort of not stick out often. Did you? Did you observe big differences in wealth and spending, consumption and all that kind of stuff for those that weren't the little side jobs and those that didn't? As you were growing up, you know, amongst your peers, yeah, definitely

15:04
I went to a state school where there was where the catchment area was it covered a relatively middle class, part of town, and then a very deprived part of town. And I'm sure, like from memory, there was even like a panorama, about the two areas where I was from, and like the disparity between them from a financial perspective. So I had friends at school who had very little, and then I had friends at school who had a lot and, and I kind of was, I had experiences and friendships from from both sides. So I really appreciated how much money can support you and give you opportunities in life. So I think I've always respected it and been very grateful for it and always wanted to make sure I have enough. And then as part of you moving into this van life, I did plan for it financially. And I think that is because I've always understood and appreciated how important money can be in terms of the opportunities it affords you.

16:13
So I'm interested to know what you learn about money from your university experiences, because we know that can be there can be a wide range of situations or viewed isn't there, some people breezed through it. And my daughter came out with no debt. She never had the idea of spending more than a 90 pound a week. But her friends used to look at their state and say, I don't know where all this money's gone to. And she said, Well, it's because you've bought everyone around the drinks in the bar last night, don't you remember? No. Or, or is a complete train wreck is you know, and they were wondering, like, you know, what's happened? So where are you on that scale? Or? And what experiences Did you have at uni with money and spending and learning to control your own situation?

16:56
Yeah, um, so at uni, I had the student loan, it was before all the changes to the student loan. So I think I came out with about 13 grand of student loan debt.

17:09
That's when you used to get the living costs for grants, not loans. Yeah.

17:14
And my parents paid for my rent, which was great. So I was very much maxing out my overdraft each time. But I had part time work. I always knew I wanted to travel during my summers, at least for part of my summer. So I worked alongside my studies, and during my university breaks, so I could afford to travel. And so apart from my rent, I did financially support the kind of the rest of my university days, and definitely maxed out the overdraft. And But yeah, I lived like I lived as a typical student, I didn't get myself in a lot of trouble in any way. And I can't remember having I've never been a big drinker, which I guess is the biggest spend for a lot of students and like the socializing element of it. And thankfully, I am very petite and lightweight. So that was never something that I spent a lot of money on. And I was a campus University. So I didn't have a lot of the city temptations and spending in that sense either

18:27
came through in relatively one piece, I get it. Yeah. But it's still one of the things as young people find really tricky is just understanding how much food costs right because they think he's you know, when they're living at home, it's just the fairies filled a cup of Brian's daughter keeps coming back. She lives with her boyfriend half the weight and comes back to us half the week. And then she says, well, there's nothing to eat in here. Suppose because your email as the reason she comes back is I think Washington food, but that's another story. So you left uni d? I know you said you did trips. And you were you were working on the side. But when you finish uni, did you decide to have a gap year? Or did you go straight into work? Or what was what did you have a master plan? or How are you approaching it as you as you left uni in terms of this whole idea of earning and spending and making your own way in the world. Um,

19:15
so I already work business school was really competitive in terms of, you've got to get a place on a graduate scheme. And so I'd secured a position at Citi group to start in September after I graduated. So I only had a couple of months between the end of my exams and then starting my first job. So I went traveling for like five weeks of those. But then, before I knew it, I was I was starting at work. So I always like the last couple years of university. That was always the path that I was going to take and I think that was really influenced by my peer group and the university that I went to, that I never really considered anything else until about Six months into my work when I was really unhappy, and I was thinking, gosh, is this is this everything I'd worked hard for. And this is meant to be the reward and it doesn't feel like a reward. And it was only then that I started questioning it Really? Hmm.

20:14
So you went into a graduate job, you started earning money, and what were you live in London at this stage? Are you living in deeds or living with parents? What were you sort of coping with the whole, you know, surviving stuff.

20:27
Yeah. And so the time I was earning most was when I was actually the worst with my money. So I moved straight to London, I was working in Canary Wharf and living in Camden, and paying my own rent and everything for the first time ever. And, and I was working like 100 hours a week, like, most weekends working until midnight, like proper investment, banking, stereotypical career. So at the time, money was my con compensation for working so hard and being quite miserable at work. So I was spending money on taxis everywhere, because I just didn't have the time to spend commuting and buying every meal out. Because I didn't, I was never at home to cook for myself. And then weekends, I was kind of shopping to make myself feel better about being quite miserable in the week and kind of falling into the retail therapy trap. So I was it was the time that I started on a very high salary for a graduate position. But I was spending all of that and more to make up for being relatively miserable.

21:45
That's really interesting point, because, you know, I don't if you know, what's the new thing I've done or read anything I've done by teach, that doesn't matter how much you earn, if you cannot control your spending, and your spending is not aligned with what's going to make you happy. And also, you know, keep you straight on the straight and narrow, you will never get ahead. So, um, tell me a little bit more about the unhappiness as far as you want to about kind of what was it about the work that was making you unhappy apart from long hours? Was it just not fulfilling work? Or was it just the people you're with there? were a bit one dimensional? Or was it you're missing your family and your friends? Or I don't know what what was it about that work apart from you know, the money clearly wasn't enough compensation? What was it taking away from your happiness? Apart from obviously being paid every month?

22:29
Hmm. Yeah, I think the main part was that it was all encompassing. And I was at my desk by 9am. And midnight was an early leave. So I didn't have time in my life, anything else so and the ripple effects of that, you're not looking after yourself and your other elements of your, of your well being, I didn't have things that I was doing to talk about with my friends, I didn't have time to see my friends and family. So just not having any time and feeling genuinely exhausted. But I collapsed in the office twice in the first six months, just because of exhaustion.

And so just how much time it took up, and the ripple effects of that. Also, the work. Wasn't that fulfilling for me. So I love the intellectual challenge. And I was clearly working with fascinating people from like an international team. Obviously, the work is really intellectually stimulating, and it was in September 2008. So during the credit crisis, so being in Canary Wharf every day when huge banks were collapsing overnight. And like, the team around me was cut in half whilst I was there. And so being so close to the action of a huge recession was really fascinating. But then I was going to work in a spreadsheet on a very specific financial model, which wasn't really my jam. I much prefer kind of the bigger picture, thinking and the strategy stuff, and, and it was also a really cutthroat environment. And I'm just not a very cutthroat kind of person. I'm very small, petite woman. I look very young for my age, and I just couldn't, I wasn't prepared for the level of cutthroat and competitiveness of that culture that I was kind of thrown into. And, and it took me a while to accept that that doesn't mean I'm a failure. That doesn't mean that I can't be successful in some area financial services, it just that culture wasn't didn't suit me and my string.

24:50
Yeah, that's an interesting one. People under estimating you are you feeling that perhaps, you know, there. There's a Boolean culture, not me, but he knew but there's that bravado. There's that That very male testosterone, even from the women, you know, kind of thing. But there's an interesting research that shows or various bits of research you've had to write in my new book is that when people don't feel safe, and they don't feel secure in their own skin, they have perhaps don't feel loved or they need validation from external, that validation can take all sorts of forms, it could be spending could be addictions, it can be striving for success, status, money, recognition, whatever it is. And it's that insecurity, and it can be channeled, you know, that's not, you know, right, everyone who's listening, you know, if you've got some insecurities I have, and we've all got them. But if you don't recognize it for what it is, it can start overwhelming you and then you you the worst version of you comes out as opposed to the best version, right? So that's probably probably and you get a disproportionate number of people who've got that been in those kind of environments. So whereas you normally, if you went to a party, you know, they're not all jerks, they're not, you know, unpleasant people, there's gonna be a few, but you've gotten to a situation where the worst, there's a concentration of people, and the environment brings out the worst in them. Interesting. So you were clearly unhappy, and and you didn't have you couldn't call time your own. That's another interesting point, isn't it about happiness and fulfillment is that if you feel you can exercise control over your time, and you're connected to the output, then you can genuinely increase your happiness. That's why florists and gardeners are very happy people. So, okay, so you did this for six months a year, you clashed a couple of times, and the officers did it did do now and bells not ringing to you the press, this is not the right way to go.

26:42
Um, I mean, I tried to fit in for like, the first few months. And, you know, particularly as I was very conscious that my parents had funded me through university, and I felt like I owed it to other people as well to kind of stick this out and try and make it work. And, thankfully, it was a six month contract that I'd signed. And then I'd also been told, you know, it's good to show that you can stick things out like on your CV and things like that, like, just just get the six months to say that, you know, you need committed to it for that long. So, kind of four months in, I was like, This isn't for me, I need to get out. And then I started counting down and thankfully, I had that kind of six month get out clause. So I did it for six months. And then yeah, then looked at moving over to the investment management side, which you don't work such long hours, and the culture was a bit more aligned to my, to my values.

27:41
So after six months, you moved over to the investment management side. Was there a big change in your financial package? Or did it continue but wasn't gonna rise as quickly? Or? Or what? Or was it was it when you didn't care about that,

27:54
From memory, it was like two grand less than why I left the investment bank off. And with bonus, so I think with bonus, I still started with more than I would have was on at the bank, I'm sure my trajectory had I stayed at the investment bank would have been steeper over time. But the immediate impact financially, definitely wasn't negative. And so. And I'd also learned a lot of lessons from how I was managing my money when I was in investment banking. So so like you said, I also wasn't spending as much so I felt financially better off because I was being a lot more conscious with what I was doing with the money I was getting every month. So even though I have more time on my hands, and I had, like my evenings and my weekends to socialize, and I was still kind of spending less because I wasn't seeking that fulfillment through spending my money. Right. So financially. It was a good, a good move, as well.

29:03
Hmm. So when you moved into the investment management world, and you moved out of that top two, or rather unpleasant situation you're in, and you became bitten online from spending a bit less money, did you did you start to sort of did your appraise actually kind of where you were going with your life, the role of money in it the role of what does success mean to you? How do you what are you just pleased to be out of that? And we're just taking each step each day as it came with no master plan?

29:29
Um, yeah, I think I, it did take me a couple of months after I left the investment bank to, to, you know, tell myself that I wasn't a failure, like from, you know, wanting to work in financial services and still believing that there was a place for me somewhere in that industry, and also, having worked so hard and being so miserable for six months and not having anything financially at the end to show for it. That was a really special lesson for me. So one of the kind of commitments I made to myself was think long term with the money that you're making when you start this position at the with Investment Management. So I, you know, I put really good practices in place from the start, I started like saving my emergency fund, and then making sure that I was aware of the pensions and the share scheme benefits that investment company offered me and to make the most of those and I wanted to pay off my student loan before I was 30. I wanted to buy my own flat before I was 30. So I started thinking a lot more long time and putting good behaviors in place. And that's probably one of the things I'm most grateful for, because of my experience at the investment bank, I think had I not worked so hard to add money, and then at the end not had anything to show for it, I wouldn't have learned those lessons to be in the position that I'm in now.

31:02
That's interesting. So it's not the case that you have missteps and go down blind alleys is that you learn from them, and they don't hurt you too much along the way. Interesting. You mentioned about not wanting to feel like a failure. And I think also perhaps feeling that you've let your parents down or other people down. But this idea that we make mistakes in our life, and that somehow that makes us a failure, as opposed to we've just found one way not to live our life or one way not to run our money or one way not to spend. That's a big thing. Again, I write about this in my book is that this if you can divorce the identity of who you are with the mistakes you've made, you can just put them down for what they are. I mean, they're just mistakes, define you that just you know, you've got to make mistakes to learn, right, ideally make learn from other people's but I just wondered, so tell me about that, that transition of your identity from that feelings that you had made missteps and you've done all that work for six months and sold your soul effectively and had no money to show for it made even worse, then you transitioned to this being more mindful? How did you feel once you started making more intentional, more focused more, more in control decisions, and aligning your daily actions with those with that kind of direction you wanted to go.

32:17
And I felt so much more confident, and empowered. And myself, really, and it definitely had positive knock on impacts to who I was at work. I was valuing my time and my relationships, more than I was valuing money. And I took a much more holistic view to what success looked like for me, and what a successful career looked like and what it afforded me in my life, much more than just the money. So yeah.

33:02
And that thing about working out what does make you happy? And what keeps you you know, and the role of money? Is that something that's continue to evolve as because you're obviously you're 34 now, so over the last 10 years, is that continues to evolve and, And is that something that you'd recommend for other people to keep, keep checking in?

33:22
Yeah, definitely. It's always fascinated me sparked by my own experiences. And then lots more of us now talking about financial well being and thinking about the role that money plays in your life and all having a unique relationship with money. And I've now done a lot of kind of personal research and reflection on the role of money in my life. And I'm still I'm still learning about the role of money in my life and kind of recognizing the stories i'd adopted from society. He or the industry, I was a part of, like to be successful in your career, your salary needs to go up year on year, and you need to have like a straight trajectory of, of kind of income. And that took me a long time to let go of and especially moving into the camp of and it was always something that I wanted to do, but it was like, gosh, like this means that I'm not going to have very much money. And does that mean I'm never going to earn money anymore? Or are people not going to take me seriously because I don't earn a certain amount of money? How am I going to cope being the wife earning the most in my friendship group anymore? Or what am i one of my old peers who are still working in those lucrative jobs gonna think of me will that change and I had to unwrap a lot of those a lot of those stories, you know, which has been really interesting journey, and what I'm still working on, like I still have moments in the camp of and we're like My gosh, is anyone ever gonna pay me a decent salary to do something anymore? And so I still have those moments of doubt, but I'm learning to, to kind of not panic when I have those stories and Okay, what story Am I telling myself and in about, like, the skills that I've got still do projects that keep my skills relevant, and I'm still opening doors for opportunities. And, you know, thinking that there's not one end goal here. Like, you've, you've worked hard, and you're taking a break of sorts to enjoy time and relationships and those other things in life that you want to value. And trusting that when I need more money to come back into my life, I've, I've got the skills and the know how to do that.

35:48
That's interesting. So I mean, the feeling there is that, obviously, that illustrates the point that because money and materialism and status is easier to quantify, as opposed to empathy, care, connectedness, balance, sense of meaning in your life and purpose that's harder to quantify. So we all have the easy route for humans is to look at the outward thing, right, which is why mental health is a big problem for people because they can't be honest about how they feel and what matters to them. So that's interesting. So tell me then about what are the catalyst for the actual campaign, first of all, how the Kemper idea came about, and how you managed to push yourself into doing that, because that's quite a big move. And it is a big move. But I actually, you know, as soon as I as soon as I knew about you, I just thought this girl is going to be amazing to speak to, because you've done something most people would never do, which is not not going to the moon, is it? But it's still it's still out there.

36:45
Yeah, yeah, definitely. Definitely feel out there at the moment. And so, it's interesting, it's another story, which kind of connects to money actually. can really laying it all out there today. And so I was single for a lot of my 20s. And, and I was seeing a lot of my school friends who were still like, my close friendship group. And when I was earning a lot of money in London, but having a more expensive lifestyle, they were settling down with a partner buying their first house back at home starting to have a very comfortable lifestyle. And, and I was, you know, single and Fancy Free in London with an expensive lifestyle. And thinking, Oh, my gosh, do I need to be sitting down roots. So I had this kind of solo female mission of, I need to prove that I can have that lifestyle as a single person. So I was like, okay, so to do that, I need to buy my own house as a single person to show that I don't need a partner to do that, right. So then that was this big mission, which I achieved, and I bought a flat when I was 29. in Brighton on my own. And then I got the fat. And I thought, well, this is lovely. But I also really value independence and freedom. And so when I got the house, I was like, that's really great. But I also need to know that I can still jump ship and go anywhere, whenever I one, I've always had that kind of nomadic spirit. And so then the house became Okay, so then I've got this asset, how can I use that to then give me more location freedom. So then I was working towards I was still in investment management, it was in 2015, I bought a house and I left Investment Management a Christmas 2018. So as soon as I've got the house, I was like, Well, I'm gonna pay off slightly more of my mortgage repayments. And I need to so I can get really good re mortgage rate. And then I'm going to build an emergency fund of this much, I'm going to make sure there's this much in my pension. And I'm going to value the house for rent. So I know that I can cover the cost of the house if I do want to leave it. And I want to make sure I've got this much in investments and savings and I set really specific numbers for each of those things really made a promise to myself as soon as my pension and my emergency fund in my investments and rental value and my mortgages this much. That's when I'm going to have my notice in

39:31
fascinating so you actually put pounds, shillings and pence in a different pot. So let's think of it like jars above the mantelpiece, right, you know, metaphorically speaking, and you the reason you are motivated to do the daily habits, some decisions behaviors and say no to things and perhaps go out a bit less was because you you associated those numbers with you being able to be free to do the next chapter of your life.

39:55
Yeah, and I mean, I'd read things like Vicki Robin Your money or your life, and I've been doing a lot of kind of personal finance, research myself, and thinking about, okay, if I need to detach myself from measuring success by how much I'm earning? And what other financial metrics Can I put in place so I feel successful. And so the things I could control was how much I hadn't savings, how big my pension, what was the value of my house and, and all of that stuff. So I literally drew out well in an Excel spreadsheet, and that wealth table knows that these are the things I want to have. And yeah, Christmas 2018 was when that when those numbers, I reached them,

40:41
I just love the intentionality that there's no messing around here, you're doing this, right. And once you commit to it, your brain does everything you can like, it's like people whenever you think, okay, it's not gonna go in a straight line. Are we a few detours, but you got there, right? So then how, when you got to these sort of December 18, and you could give your notice in? How did you feel? I mean, it's incredible.

41:06
And, yeah, it was, it was really exciting. And it felt great. I bought the van in the summer of 2018. So I also had the van outside, and I was looking at the van every day. And I was converting it. So I was seeing that progress, though I had the dream as a reminder in front of me of what I was working towards. And, and yeah, it felt it felt really amazing. Like, you know, you've made it happens days, but and I think those numbers really helped. Because I like everyone else, like with money is almost it's so difficult to say and pinpoint when Enough is enough. And, and I did that and I stuck to it. And I felt this just huge sense of achievement, which was great. And it was like I felt, ironically, I felt successful, knowing that I wasn't going to earn very much in the next year. And that was okay, and being able to tell myself that that was okay. So I felt really great. I mean, everyone at work, thought I was crazy. They were obviously all like really fascinated by the story. And a lot of people did say to me, you know, I'm kind of envious, or I wish I had done that at your age or taking a career break. And it's interesting how people react like that when you do do something like this. And yeah, it felt great. still scary, but not scary enough.

42:45
And also, you've got an outside the comfort zone, which is always a great thing. So as we sort of pull things to sort of conclusion, I just interested what you learn about the role of money, and the power it often exerts over us, which we're not always aware of. We give it too much power, don't we, you know, I'm really obsessive about this thing about not letting power money have more power than should? What have you learned about your relationship with money and the role of money in the you know, the last sort of two years that you've been on this, this new chapter of your life.

43:16
I think that I've learned that, you know, money, obviously is an enabler and obviously helps you achieve things that you want to in life, and seeing it as a resource to help you feel successful in whatever success looks like for you. Rather than seeing it as the outcome or the measure of how successful you are. And trusting that there are lots of different ways for you to make money, then you sometimes give yourself credit for too. So I'd worked in a bank for 10 years. And now I work for a startup. And I've started my own business and I'm doing kind of courses in projects, building my skills and having the opportunity to make money myself as an individual person, rather than having someone say, here's a contract, and you're now an employee, we think that we're going to give you money every month to do this thing. Creating money myself has just been that wow. Like they're like money can come into your life and you have the skills and resources that you need to generate money in so many other ways that we sometimes think that we do. And so trying to take the emotion out of it and being like money as a resource, an asset that will be there. If you want to work. And to get it you can do in more ways than you think you can. And then you can use that resource. In as in, you can choose how you use that resource. And so spend the time thinking about what you want money to give you.

44:56
Money wants to hang out with people who are ready to receive and there's abundance everywhere. So you prove That Yeah, Stacey, thank you very much for your time I'm, I'm definitely going to include you in the final draft of my new book that's coming out because I love the story. I think what you're doing is amazing. I'm really, really grateful you spend the time of this. How can people because I know you now do courses, you've got various things going on? How can people find out about more about what you're doing? Let's work with you. Hi, you, bro. get you involved in stuff help you help them? Where can where you. Where's the best hangout joints for you? You're on Instagram, aren't you?

45:28
Yeah. And thank you for asking. Yes, I'm on Instagram at Akira money. And my website is www. money to calm. And I also work at escape the city. So I can share these links with you.

45:43
Yeah, and we'll put those in the show notes. But absolute superstar. Thank you for spending the time. I don't know what the weather's like there on the beach. But you know, check it out. You can be quite nice in in October in Spain, it's still raining here and suffer. But as we always say, we've got sunshine in our hearts, wherever we are. Stacy diamond, thank you very much for your time. It's been wonderful speaking to you today.

46:06
Thank you. Thanks for having me.

46:12
Did you like that great story, wasn't it? I loved Stacey's honesty, I love authenticity. And I love the fact that she redefined her life. It was fascinating, wasn't it that she talked about because she was quite bright and doing well at her exams that that people around her was suggesting that she should take a career where money was the main measure of success. So she ended up in that city job really stressful with it's what I call a time thief, it was taking all her time. So she had nothing else in her life, no time to keep well no time for our experiences no time for friends. And the money she was paid, which is quite high was was was a poor compensation for the fact it was robbing her of all of the most important things, wasn't it. And interestingly, she said that she had very little to show for her money. And she tended to overspend at the weekends and spending on taxes and eating out and, and just had no real time to be intentional about what really mattered. And she said Didn't she that when she was earning the most was when she was the worst with money. So again, it reinforces this point that beyond enough of the basics, more and more money isn't going to solve your happiness problems. So Stacy took it into her hands then she she decided after collapsing twice on the job to move into that much less stressful job in investment management, you're still earning reasonable money. But she was determined to make her life as a single person. And she bought a flat didn't cheap before she was 30. But then she developed that plan, she decided that she was going to have that idea of of basically buying a camper van and traveling around Europe. And so she defined she redefined what it meant to be successful. And then she developed the plan didn't she where she had those key metrics emergency fund, share safe scheme, the pension pot, getting a mortgage balance down, how much rental income she'd need to, to pay for the mortgage and to give her a bit of income. But more importantly, what I learned from Stacy's interview was that, that she trusted herself. And more importantly, she she loved herself as she was. And she knew that the bigger risk was not taking a calculated risk, a carefully calibrated risk that she did of changing her trajectory of her life. And yes, she has some doubts, and she has some off days. And sometimes she thinks Why is she doing it. But what a lovely lady, I really, really recommend you listen back to that story again, and listen to what she had to say now, your values, your priorities, your situation. Your resources are all different. But she said you've got everything you already need right at your fingertips. So what a great story to finish on 2020 hopefully, it's going to inspire you to give my 10 ideas for winning with money to have a brilliant 2021. Remember, if you've got questions for me, or you want me to cover areas of money that haven't been covered before, just contact me via my website at jason-butler.com and send a message to me. I read all of them and I love recovering a blog or podcast or create a tool to help you. So have a great Christmas and here's to a great new year.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai